Evidence of meeting #133 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was projects.
A video is available from Parliament.
Vice-President, Finance, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
All I can tell you regarding that is that SDTC has never provided funding to Cycle Capital. It's not a company that SDTC provides funding to.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
That is the time. Thank you for that response. We'll come back to that, I'm sure.
Ms. Bradford, you have the floor for five minutes, please.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'm going to direct my questions to the new witnesses regarding the transitional process.
Mr. Boothe, as a transitional board member, what does your role look like? Are you intending or expecting to be part of the leadership or executive once the transition of SDTC to the NRC has been completed?
Chair, Board of Directors, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
I don't know if it's appropriate to reveal this, but I'm 70 years old. My term is for one year. I'm hoping that we can complete this task in less than a year, and that will end my involvement with this process. I have no intention of, nor interest in, being in an ongoing role with SDTC or the NRC. In fact, if I understand correctly the process that we will have to follow, the last thing I will do is apply to dissolve the foundation.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
That leads me to my next question.
Could you outline the timeline and key milestones for the transition of SDTC operations to the NRC? What role will the transitional board play in overseeing the process? How exactly will SDTC employees be integrated into the NRC structure?
Chair, Board of Directors, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
The answers to those questions are at the end of the planning process, not the beginning. For the planning process that we're just embarking on, I've told you that we have divided the work among the three directors. The two who aren't here visiting with the committee are in Ottawa trying to advance that work. The planning of the transition on the SDTC side, the internal planning, is starting today in SDTC offices. The plan is to start the preliminary meetings with the National Research Council next week.
As for concrete timelines on when employees will transfer, all I can say is that my plan is for that to be in a year or less. From my point of view, the sooner the better.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Ms. Urie, as the vice-president of finance, how will your role as a board member change throughout this transition?
Vice-President, Finance, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
My role in the transition is very much to help support the work we need to do to prepare the organization to have a seamless transition into the National Research Council. I'm here to essentially provide guidance to staff to help them through the process, ensure that we're following an appropriate transition budget and make the move as smooth as possible. More important during this time is to try to get our disbursements to our active portfolio of companies back up and running. That includes the work on assessing the eligibility of projects and ensuring that we're still supporting companies within the portfolio.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Thank you.
I'll come back to you, Mr. Boothe.
How will the transition contribute to enhancing the accountability and transparency in funding and support for clean technology initiatives?
Chair, Board of Directors, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
It will do so in two ways.
First of all, even though we're working to transition programming and funding to the NRC, we're still implementing the Auditor General's report. Strengthened record-keeping, strengthened conflict of interest processes and all of those things will travel with the programming to the NRC. They'll have to be modified because they'll land in a government department, which is a different structure, but a lot of them can be used because we'll still have to access expert advice. Conflict of interest has to be managed there.
The other thing is that future NRC staff who work on SDTC funding or clean-tech funding will still have to be mindful and careful in managing the potential perceived or real conflicts they have. Going to a government department will help with accountability, and I've already talked about that. Also, the work we're doing to implement the Auditor General's report will help the NRC do a good job of clean-tech funding in the future.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Given the emphasis on rebuilding public trust and enhancing accountability, which have been damaged, what measures are being put in place to communicate these improvements effectively to stakeholders and the general public?
Chair, Board of Directors, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
I don't have an answer for that yet. Right now we're focusing on communications with staff because this is a big change for them, but the next step is to talk with stakeholders. Stakeholders are very anxious, obviously. I'll be honest. I haven't turned my mind to communication with the public. As a deputy minister, my thought was always that it was the job of ministers to do that and not public servants. However, this is a new role I'm in, and I'll certainly add that to my list of things to ponder.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much. That is the time.
To begin our last round, Mr. Perkins, you have the floor for five minutes.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Urie, I'll ask a follow-up to the question on bonuses. You said none were paid this year. Were any bonuses paid the year before last year? That would be 2022.
Vice-President, Finance, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
In the previous fiscal year, yes, bonuses were—
Vice-President, Finance, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
I believe that's publicly available in the annual report that's on our website. It varies depending on the level of the employee.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Can you table with this committee the bonuses paid to each individual executive during the period of the audit, 2017 to 2023, as well as any other additional compensation they may have been given besides performance pay in that period of time?
Vice-President, Finance, Sustainable Development Technology Canada
We should be able to table that without a problem.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Thank you.
Auditor General, I know your audit only went back to 2017. I would have been happy if it had gone back further, but I want to outline to you why.... There was mention earlier of Cycle Capital. I get that SDTC didn't pay Cycle Capital, but Cycle Capital is a venture capital firm that has ownership in a lot of companies. If we go back to the establishment of Cycle Capital in 2009 up to and including your report, the companies they are listed to have ownership in got $213 million, a considerable amount of the billion-dollar green slush fund.
After receiving the first $100 million, their founder-owner was appointed to the board, in 2016, so the companies she had invested in already had $100 million. The appointments process seems to be very flawed when somebody whose investments had already received $100 million was seen as a reasonable director for this board. Wouldn't you agree?
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General
I can't comment on how board members were appointed. I didn't look at that during our audit.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Don't you think it's a problem that somebody who gets appointed to a board has companies that have received $100 million from the very board they're being appointed to?
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General
As I mentioned, the sustainable development technology act has an inherent conflict of interest baked into it. I would have expected that to be factored into an appointment process and that if conflicts of interest existed, whether real or perceived, they would have been better managed than what we found.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
It's very clear in the acts, both the SDTC act and the Conflict of Interest Act for public office holders, that you're not to benefit directly—you or your family—from the work of the organization you've been appointed to as a public office holder.
This is only what I've been able to find, but given the list that you gave us after the last meeting, combined with the work I had done, $105 million went to Cycle Capital's companies alone during the time that she was on the board, from 2016 to 2023. Your audit was from 2017 to 2023, and it seems to have missed quite a number of the conflicted companies that she got money to.
