Evidence of meeting #142 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sdtc.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Cassie Doyle  Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative John Williamson

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 142 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Accounts.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application.

Before we begin, I'd like to ask all in-person participants to read the guidelines written on the updated cards on the table. These measures are in place to help prevent audio and feedback incidents and to protect the health and safety of all participants, including and especially our interpreters. You'll also notice a QR code on the card that links to a short awareness video.

I would remind all in-person and online participants that for the safety of our interpreters, it is very important that your microphone is muted when you're not speaking. I know that can be a bit of a challenge when you're on Zoom, but when you finish your question, if you could please mute yourself, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you all for your co‑operation.

Just as a reminder, all comments should be addressed through the chair.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3), the committee is resuming consideration of Report 6, Sustainable Development Technology Canada, of the 2024 Reports 5 to 7 of the Auditor General of Canada.

I'd like to welcome our witness. We have, from Sustainable Development Technology Canada, Cassie Doyle, board director.

Ms. Doyle, thank you for joining us today. You have up to five minutes for your opening remarks, if you'd like. Then we'll turn to the round of questions.

The floor is yours for five minutes, please.

Cassie Doyle Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon.

I want to begin by acknowledging, with respect, that I am joining you today from my home in Coast Salish territory, specifically on the traditional lands of the Esquimalt and Songhees first nations. I am appearing before your committee today as a recently appointed member of the board of directors of SDTC.

I bring to this role over 40 years of public service experience. I have served as a deputy minister in the governments of British Columbia and Canada, and have, since then, acquired substantive experience in the governance of Crown agencies, serving on boards to that purpose for the provinces of Alberta and B.C. and for the federal government. Over this time, I have served cabinet ministers across Canada's full political spectrum.

Alongside former deputy ministers Paul Boothe and Marta Morgan, I was appointed to the board on June 4 for a term of one year. Our small board structure aligns with a specific mandate to implement the recommendations of the Auditor General report on SDTC, to implement the minister's direction to restart funding for Canadian clean technology companies, both those previously approved for funding and new applicants, and to transition SDTC programming and staff to the National Research Council.

Our work is informed by the extensive and conclusive reviews conducted over the past year: the Auditor General's report of May 2024; the fact-finding review on employment practices by McCarthy Tétrault; and the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner's reports on two former SDTC board members.

Our focus since day one has been to ensure strong executive oversight of all the foundation's activities. In carrying out our mandate, we are guided by three principles: to uphold our fiduciary responsibilities to ensure the sound management of public funds, to ensure fairness to clean-tech companies that have entered into legal agreements with SDTC in support of advancing their businesses and to facilitate the transition of SDTC to the NRC in an orderly manner.

Our first focus has been on implementing the guidance from the Auditor General's report. Of the 11 recommendations for SDTC, 10 have now been implemented. An updated contribution agreement was part of this work to incorporate enhanced oversight and reporting processes as recommended and to reflect the transition under way. The recommendation still to be completed is number 6.29 in the report, which states that SDTC “should reassess projects approved during the audit period to ensure that they met the goal and objectives of the Sustainable Development Technology Fund and all its eligibility criteria.” This reassessment is now under way using independent third parties that were recruited for their competence in this work, and their findings are being reported for final decision to our board.

Our second mandate, to restart funding for those companies that hold agreements with SDTC, is advancing. We will rely on the findings of the AG report itself and the third party assessments under way, as well as a new quality assurance process put in place to confirm continued compliance before disbursing funds. I can say that we are getting close to releasing our first disbursements, with priority being accorded to those companies that have submitted their documentation and have been waiting the longest. The process for approving new funding for projects has also resumed, with priority being accorded to those businesses that have been in the queue the longest and are most advanced in the reinforced due diligence process, including the review by external experts.

On our third mandate, work is well under way to transition SDTC programming and staff to the NRC. Working groups between the two organizations are in place, developing detailed plans to ensure alignment on both programming and personnel.

Last, I come to this role as a former deputy minister of Natural Resources Canada and Environment Canada, and I am familiar with the kind of innovative companies that have been recipients of SDTC programming support. I am mindful, in delivering my mandate, of the importance of these hundreds of small and medium-sized businesses that are developing critical sustainable technologies. Their work contributes to Canada's economic growth and assists in achieving Canada's environmental objectives.

Our focus as a new board is to deliver on our three mandates in a manner that ensures accountability, transparency and integrity.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm happy to answer your questions.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative John Williamson

Thank you very much, Ms. Doyle.

We'll now begin our first round, which consists of four members with six minutes each. Mr. Perkins will have the floor first for six minutes.

Before you begin, because we have a few new members here, I should just let everyone know how I like to run these and have run them without objection from anyone to date. Should there be any need to change that, we can take it to the subcommittee at some point.

I try to let members ask questions up to the end of their time. I'll begin to nudge as you get close to the time, but I like our witnesses to give a full and concise answer, even if it goes beyond the time. I think this has worked well for this committee to hear fully from the witnesses.

I'll remind our members that, should you interrupt the witness when they're responding to a follow-up question after your time, I'll immediately stop the clock and move on. It's meant to give the witnesses time for one last crack at bat, I suppose, and it's proven to work well. I've not heard any objections.

I just wanted to let members know, particularly those who are new here, that as you're approaching the end of your time, I allow witnesses to complete a brief answer.

Mr. Perkins, I will again flag that you have six minutes, not six minutes and 10 seconds. Thank you.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Doyle, for coming on this ongoing study into SDTC. As the public knows, it's the billion-dollar Liberal green slush fund.

I'd like to start with a couple of basic questions, if I can. Thank you for your opening statement.

You've just started to go through the process and are about to publish the first money and restart the funding. You mentioned that the contribution agreement has been revised. Could you please table with this committee the revised contribution agreement and the one it replaced?

4:40 p.m.

Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Cassie Doyle

Yes, we'd be happy to do that. Thanks.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Thank you.

The questions I have begin with the issue of the money you're about to give. You outlined that those that have been waiting in the queue the longest are those you're going to give priority to. Could I ask you about that?

In that analysis, are you determining whether or not they are any one of the companies from the 82% of transactions the Auditor General reviewed that were conflicted?

Keeping in mind that this is an issue for Parliament, are you factoring that into whether or not they should be moved up the queue or considered as the investigation is ongoing?

4:40 p.m.

Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Cassie Doyle

Thank you for that question.

I'm getting feedback from the room, but I should say that—

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative John Williamson

Ms. Doyle, just hold on. Maybe we'll try to....

I've stopped the clock. You'll get a chance.

Is that better? Are you still picking up some audio feedback?

4:40 p.m.

Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Cassie Doyle

No. It's more when I speak.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative John Williamson

Why don't you proceed then? If you find it is very disruptive....

4:40 p.m.

Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative John Williamson

The same goes for the interpreters, if you pick it up as well.

Ms. Doyle, the floor is yours.

4:45 p.m.

Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Cassie Doyle

Great. Thank you.

I wanted to respond by saying that our very first priority for disbursements to our recipients is those companies that were found by the Auditor General to have no conflict of interest or eligibility issues. Those will be the very first disbursements.

However, we are reviewing each project and going through this new disbursement assurance quality process before any payment is made.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

For that period, there were 226 transactions the Auditor General reviewed, but that period had over 400 transactions. Have you reviewed the other 400 transactions for conflicts and eliminated them from the application process at this stage?

4:45 p.m.

Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Cassie Doyle

As I mentioned, one recommendation by the Auditor General that is still under way is the assessment of each project as she recommended. That work is being undertaken by third parties and is under way right now.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

My question is related to the full period of time, because the Auditor General only did a sample from that period of 226 out of over 400 transactions. I hope you are looking at those. I hope that would have piqued your curiosity, as a board member with your fiduciary responsibility, and you would ensure that all of those files and all of those applications of conflicted companies were being eliminated at this stage from consideration out of the 400, not just the ones the Auditor General named.

4:45 p.m.

Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Cassie Doyle

The recommendation of the Auditor General was to assess all projects within her audit period for eligibility. That is the process that we have under way right now using third parties. Every single project is being reviewed by two independent third parties to assess full eligibility.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Could you table with the committee who those two independent third parties are?

4:45 p.m.

Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Cassie Doyle

They're consulting companies that we've recruited through an RFP. I can provide you with the names of those consultants.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Yes, if you could, that would be great because we've had accusations from the whistle-blower that the third parties that have been used to vet projects before have been conflicted with management.

4:45 p.m.

Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Cassie Doyle

We do have reinforced conflict-of-interest provisions to ensure that our contractors are not in any way in conflict of interest.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Have you met with the minister since you took over this role?

4:45 p.m.

Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Cassie Doyle

I have not.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Have any of the board members, that you're aware of?

4:45 p.m.

Board Director, Sustainable Development Technology Canada

Cassie Doyle

No, not that I'm aware of. I believe none of us have met with the minister.