Public Accounts Committee on Nov. 4th, 2024

[Ziyad Rahme]

That is—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

—would need to nominate them, correct?

[Ziyad Rahme]

That's correct. We would open a round, and accelerators would nominate.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Who at SDTC determined the roster of accelerators that would recommend projects under this funding stream?

[Ziyad Rahme]

It was our ecosystems team that ran that funding stream and would have reached out across the country to onboard accelerators.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Two of the accelerators that were on that accredited list were MaRS and the Verschuren Centre, correct?

[Ziyad Rahme]

Mr. Chair, that is correct.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

And we know that Annette Verschuren sat on the board of both MaRS and the Verschuren Centre. Did anyone raise any concerns about this, to your knowledge?

[Ziyad Rahme]

Mr. Chair, they did not to my knowledge.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

So here we have a situation where there are two accelerators connected to Annette Verschuren and these accelerators get to hand-pick projects to be considered for seed funding, funding that is approved by the SDTC board, the board that Ms. Verschuren was the chair of. It turns out that eligible expenses under the seed funding stream include the very services that these accelerators provide for a fee. That was the finding of the Ethics Commissioner in his report with respect to the Verschuren Centre.

How was that allowed to happen?

[Ziyad Rahme]

Mr. Chair, the report of the Ethics Commissioner is very clear. I don't have anything to add to his conclusions.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

It's a total racket that, again, underscores the mismanagement, corruption and conflict at SDTC.

To Ms. Hogan, is it correct that, in your report, you found that it was not assessed by the board or by the department whether the $38.5 million in COVID payments that went out the door complied with the contribution agreements?

[Karen Hogan]

The fact that the COVID payments were lumped together in a bulk approval—I believe they were actually in a consent agenda item, which typically doesn't even have a discussion or conversation at a board meeting—meant that this did not follow the requirements of the contribution agreement, which Parliament had clearly laid out, namely, that funding should always be provided to an organization on a case-by-case decision. That was not the case here.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Yes, $38.5 million improperly went out the door.

Mr. Rahme, what steps have been taken by SDTC, the current interim board and executive team, to recover $38.5 million tax dollars that improperly went out the door?

[Ziyad Rahme]

Mr. Chair, as I said in the previous round of questioning, the board is currently reviewing all of the eligible projects, including these payments, and as they go through that review process, they will then take the appropriate actions as necessary, whether it's resuming, terminating or, if necessary, recovering funding.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

The $38.5 million went improperly out the door, and your answer is that up until now nothing has been done to recover those funds. That is $38.5 million.

What about the $220,000 that went to Annette Verschuren's company, for which she was found guilty by the Ethics Commissioner? I asked a month ago, when two interim board members appeared here, what steps had been taken to recover those monies, and they couldn't answer.

Has anything happened since, or has the board continued to be AWOL when it comes to making taxpayers whole?

[Ziyad Rahme]

Mr. Chair, that process is ongoing, and when the board of directors—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

It's AWOL.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Cooper, that is the time. I appreciate it.

Thank you all very much. I want to thank Ms. Hogan and your officials from the Auditor General of Canada—

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Chair, did you forget about me?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Pardon me. You're so right, Ms. Khalid. I even signalled to you earlier. Sorry, but I was—

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I thought I was quite unforgettable, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

You said it, not me.

Ms. Khalid, you have the floor for five minutes, and I apologize. Ms. Blaney is going to think I do this as a matter of course.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you. I don't have a lot of questions, but I do want to clarify some points.

Ms. Hogan, would being a police officer or an agent of the court rather than being a CPA help you in furthering your duties and obligations as the Auditor General?

[Karen Hogan]

My mandate is very broad. I have very broad access, but I am not here to determine intent. That is a criminal matter, and that I would leave to the experts, who are law enforcement.