Public Accounts Committee on Nov. 20th, 2024

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Ms. Verschuren, with the greatest respect, that was not my question. My question was how it was that the SDTC board had a conflict of interest policy in place that didn't comply with the act.

Here's what this unlawful, so-called conflict of interest policy allowed board members to do. This is right from paragraph 6.46 of the Auditor General's report. Board members were allowed, under the policy, to buy or sell securities in companies that were funding recipients of SDTC as soon as three days after a public announcement of a funding decision.

How was that allowed to stand?

[Annette Verschuren]

Those were the procedures at the time, and I took over as chair—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Ms. Verschuren, here is the situation we have. The SDTC board could approve funding for a company on Monday and then, on Thursday, board members could buy or sell shares in that very same company. Do you know what that is? It's insider trading, isn't it?

[Annette Verschuren]

Those processes were in place when I arrived as chair, so this was the recommendation made by—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

They remained in place. For five years you were the chair, and for five years they remained in place. You did nothing about it. Leah Lawrence, the CEO at the time, went to you and said that the conflict of interest guidelines or policy as it pertained to the board needed to be strengthened.

You kiboshed efforts to strengthen those conflict of interest policies, to bring them in line with the act and to end the insider trading. Isn't that right?

[Annette Verschuren]

I followed what I believed and...recommended by independent legal advice—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Is that the independent legal advice of the conflicted Ed Vandenberg? Is that the legal advice that you received? Is that your excuse?

[Annette Verschuren]

—and from the management team. That was the way in which these—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

It's very interesting because at SDTC there was a conflict of interest policy for staff. Staff, quite appropriately, were prohibited from investing in a company funded by SDTC for five years following a project's completion—five years—yet board members could invest in companies three days after a public announcement of a funding decision was made. How do you explain that?

[Annette Verschuren]

The procedures were those that I followed, and—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Those were ones that facilitated insider trading. Do you know what the explanation is? It's that the board you chaired was corrupt from top to bottom.

By the way, Ms. Verschuren, you've sat as a director on publicly traded companies. Haven't you?

[Annette Verschuren]

Yes, I have.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

You know full well that, pursuant to the rules on insider trading and self-dealing from the Ontario Securities Commission, directors can't, within days of a public announcement, purchase shares in the company for which they sit as a director. You know you can't do that. Is that not right?

[Annette Verschuren]

I believe I followed the procedures—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

You know that's not the case. You can't do that.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Cooper, your time is up. I'll allow the witness to answer.

Ms. Verschuren, you have the floor.

[Annette Verschuren]

Certainly, the procedures were established when I got there and continued. I think this is—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

[Technical difficulty—Editor] because it was one big, green gravy train.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'm going to move on now.

Ms. Yip, you have the floor for five minutes, please.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Verschuren, for coming today. Would you like to finish answering the question?

[Annette Verschuren]

No, it's not necessary. I think I have tried to establish—

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

She's admitted her guilt—

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Okay. Thank you. It's my time.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Cooper, your time is up.

Ms. Yip, you have the floor.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you.

Do you recognize that your lack of recusals has impacted the industry, leaving small businesses and innovators in a vulnerable position? Do you have any comment?