No.
Evidence of meeting #152 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sdtc.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #152 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sdtc.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Thank you.
I'd like to begin with some of your previous testimony in relation to questions I asked of you. I asked you how your appointment process came about. I asked if you had applied. You answered the question in committee, and then you sent a lawyer's letter a week later, but the lawyer's letter didn't really clarify things from my perspective.
You said, Ms. Verschuren, that you had never applied for any job in your life, including this one, and that former minister Bains had called you twice to ask you to do it. That's what you testified last time. Is that still true?
As an Individual
In my note, I clarified to the committee that I was approached—
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
I'm sorry, Ms. Verschuren. I didn't ask you about your note. I'll come to that.
As an Individual
I was approached to put my name forward for consideration, yes, and after a period of reflection, I decided to fill out the necessary documents and submit my application.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Okay. Thank you.
Those are the two pieces that I think were missing, because in former minister Bains' testimony and in the testimony of the head of appointments for the Privy Council Office, the Prime Minister's personal department, they said no one was contacted who hadn't applied first, but clearly, they contacted you before you applied. That's what you just testified.
As an Individual
During the summer or the spring, I think, there were a couple of occasions when I would have been at a conference with the minister, and I think we discussed it at that stage.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
You testified that he phoned you and that it wasn't at a conference—that he actually called you twice.
On the first call, what did he ask and what was your response?
As an Individual
I don't recall if they were both telephone calls, quite frankly. I did receive a call from him. Again, he said, “Annette, you'd be extraordinarily qualified to take on this position,” and he talked a bit about the role of SDTC.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
You then gave it some consideration, and you and he had another communication by phone, presumably to discuss what your decision was. Is that correct?
As an Individual
Yes. I think that, when I decided I was going to apply, we had a conversation.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
It's very interesting. I believe the testimony you are giving right now is the truthful testimony, and I believe the testimony reflects that Minister Bains' testimony was actually not truthful. Former Liberal minister Bains, when he appeared, said that he never called anybody who wasn't on the list provided by PCO. It's very clear that they called you first, then asked you to apply and then the PCO list came about with those to be considered.
I believe, Mr. Chair, that is something that will require the reflection of this committee. We had a former minister of the Crown who I believe just lied before the committee about the appointment process and what was done. He said that very clearly. There were many other things he couldn't remember, but he remembered clearly that he didn't do anything that somebody else didn't tell him to do, and that somebody else was the Prime Minister's department, the PCO. That was actually a lie to this committee.
Ms. Verschuren, when you took this position—which, of course, is not something you do for pay, as we know, when it comes to government GIC appointments—there was the issue of the fact that NRStor, which you founded and owned, had already been doing business with SDTC, the Liberal green slush fund. In fact, Leah Lawrence, whom you inherited as the CEO, had warned Minister Bains' office, and his former PMO staffer under Prime Minister Trudeau who was working on government and communications for SDTC also warned the minister's department, that somebody who had a conflict should not be appointed. Ms. Lawrence testified before committee that you were the first chair appointed to this body who actually had been doing business with this body since it was founded in 2001.
Why did you think—I don't care about the Ethics Commissioner discussion, but why did you think personally—that it was okay for you to take on a job with an organization that was doing millions of dollars of business with NRStor, which you own?
As an Individual
During the application process, I declared this conflict. I had declared this conflict to the Ethics Commissioner, to the conflict commissioner, to ISED and to everybody who was responsible.
I did not know that Ms. Lawrence approached and called the minister on this.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you very much.
That is your time, Mr. Perkins.
Next is Ms. Bradford. You have the floor for six minutes, please.
November 20th, 2024 / 4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Ms. Verschuren, for being with us by video today.
Conservatives would have us believe that you're a Liberal insider, but in fact you've equally served Conservative governments. You were tapped by Prime Minister Mulroney to serve on his national science and technology committee.
Can you speak to the work you did under this committee for the Mulroney government?
As an Individual
Mr. Chair and honourable member, the former prime minister was the chair of that committee. We worked cross-border with U.S. counterparts. There was a science and technology committee set up by the Bush administration, I think, at the time. We met over a period of two or three years to share ideas, work together and promote business and trade through the acceleration of science and technology.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Finance Minister Flaherty tapped you as an economic adviser to serve on his economic council during the 2008 recession. Can you speak to the work you were doing under former minister Jim Flaherty?
As an Individual
I was a member. I think there were about 15 of us across the country who were advising the minister to respond to the economic crisis of 2008-09. This committee made recommendations to the minister on how we should respond in this recession to bring back the economy. We presented short-term recommendations and longer-term recommendations.
It was a pretty big infrastructure program that crossed the country at the time to really stimulate growth. I did that for about 12 months to 14 months.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Did you do any other work in an adviser role or any similar capacity for any other Conservative PM or minister over the last 20 years?
As an Individual
I worked with Prime Minister Harper on the science and technology council. I worked with him on North American free trade. I went with him to Cancun to represent Canada to promote trade. Yes, I did a number of those things with former prime minister Stephen Harper.
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
You went on a mission to Cancun with the prime minister to promote trade with Mexico. Were there any other department people on that? Was it a trade mission?
As an Individual
It was a decision where former president Fox, former president Bush and former prime minister Stephen Harper came together to ask what we could do to promote trade. I think there were 10 business people from each country talking about ways we can reduce barriers to increase trade among our countries. It was about an hour-long meeting, and it was part of North American free trade discussions and promotion.
Liberal
Liberal
Valerie Bradford Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Have you taken any such role with any provincial governments in the last 20 years?