Public Accounts Committee on Oct. 21st, 2022

[Paul Ledwell]

I don't have that in front of me, honourable member. The departmental results are still being worked on, so—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

No, I know they're not still being worked on, because they have been submitted already. They've been signed off on and submitted to the Treasury Board, because they're being released very shortly.

Let me get to your departmental plans for this year.

Peter Drucker is famous for the line, “You can't improve what you can't measure.” I'm looking at your departmental plans in which you set out goals for the coming year, mostly to justify, in the estimates process, funding from the government. I see such things in your plans as goals for United Nations sustainable development goals and sustainable cities, or how many people visit your website. However, there isn't a single goal related to achieving that 80% target.

How in the world is this possible? “We know it's a problem, but we've set a goal for how many people will visit a website, not a service standard for our veterans.”

[Paul Ledwell]

I can tell you, honourable member, that this is our top priority—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

No. If it were, it would be in your departmental plans. In what world would you set United Nations sustainable goals, but not goals for serving our veterans?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

If you'll excuse me, Mr. McCauley, your time has elapsed. I know I'm coming back to you, so you can take it up in your next round.

We'll turn now to Mr. Dong, who's joining us online.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I also want to thank the witnesses for joining us today.

Listening to the testimony and Q and A, I'm trying really hard to figure out what is causing the backlog. I remember, under the previous government's deficit reduction action plan, there were nine Veterans Affairs offices closed.

Mr. Ledwell, I want to know how many of these nine offices reopened or whether there were any new offices established under this government in the last seven years.

[Paul Ledwell]

Thank you very much for the question. We have reopened all of those offices. We have a presence in all parts of this country. It's very important that we are located close to where our veterans are living and that we can relate to them—not just in person, but also virtually—in terms of what they are faced with in their own local circumstances. That's very much a part of what we do.

We have, across this country, 38 unique Veterans Affairs Canada offices. We also have 32 centres that work on transition and are affiliated with military bases, and we have 20 occupational stress injury clinics that exist from coast to coast. These elements are really important in terms of our presence and our ability to respond to the needs and interests of veterans in those local areas.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

In all of these units that you just mentioned, nine new offices are being opened. Is that correct?

[Paul Ledwell]

I believe that's correct, yes.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Okay. Service capacity has increased, but we're still facing a backlog. I'm trying to understand why that is. Is it because there was a significant increase in the overall clientele base? In terms of personnel, there are lots more people you have to serve. Is that the case?

[Paul Ledwell]

That is the case. As indicated earlier, there was a 75% increase in demand in the five years beginning in 2015.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

I see.

[Paul Ledwell]

This was a very significant increase. I should say as well, honourable member, that there was an increase in the complexity of issues and demands coming forward from the veterans, particularly around mental health issues, and significantly around PTSD related to those issues.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Okay. Can I interpret that as the overall size of the force having increased to meet the targets or the goals to serve Canadians and to serve our interests domestically and internationally?

[Paul Ledwell]

That is the case, and there are more veterans every year who are releasing from active service. That increases the number of potential veterans who could come forward with an application to Veterans Affairs Canada.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Okay. That's important.

I also noticed that our annual budget has increased by $2 billion per year, compared to the previous government. Can you tell the committee what percentage of that $2 billion, or additional funding, has been used towards benefit payments to veterans in Canada?

[Paul Ledwell]

It's important to note that out of our entire budget, more than 90% goes out into the pockets of veterans and their families. It is to support them, and that's very much at the heart of what we do, of course. That increase you're referencing has translated into a significant benefit and support increase for our veterans, wherever they are.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

So, less than 10% is used in the administration of those payments. Okay, that's good to know, and I think that's good for the public to know.

I noticed that in your previous comment, you talked about the discrepancy between male and female wait times, and I think my colleague also asked about the anglophone and the francophone wait times. Why is that? Can you comment on this? Can you explain to us why there is a discrepancy?

[Paul Ledwell]

I think on the male and female.... There are some conditions. We've really done some work, and have continued to do some work, to ensure that our benefits profile, including our table of benefits, is brought into the modern age and reflects women who served as well as men who served. Much of that table of benefits goes back decades. It was written at a time when overwhelmingly our Canadian Armed Forces were made up of men. That obviously has changed. We have 16% of the Canadian Armed Forces now that are women.

That has been changed in our table of benefits. But we've also put in place units to really ensure that issues that are very specific to women, and applications and specific issues that might come forward from francophones, are addressed and attended to.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much, Mr. Dong. I'm afraid that is your time. I actually gave you a little extra because I wanted to hear the answer. That was an interesting round.

We're turning now to our third round. It's going to be slightly abridged, but Mrs. Shanahan, I'm going to do everything I can to make sure you do get a couple of minutes.

We're turning back now to Mr. McCauley. You were about to launch into an exchange with the deputy minister. The floor is yours again. I don't know if it was his turn or your turn, but you have the floor.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thank you.

Mr. Ledwell, you commented about increased productivity despite people working from home. Would you provide the data or the backup for that to this committee, please, so that we're more familiar with it?

There has been a fair amount of lapsed funding over the last several years. Are any of the delays in providing service to our veterans caused by funding? There was a comment about misalignment between Veterans Affairs and the RCMP. When we talk about misalignment, are we talking about the funding being approved in the estimates but not for this item?

Could you expand on that, very briefly?

[Paul Ledwell]

Sure.

If I could, honourable member, it's good to clarify that for the supports that are provided to veterans, to those who have served in the Canadian Armed Forces—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

No, I'm sorry. It's specifically toward the issue with the RCMP.

[Paul Ledwell]

I'm getting to that, if I could. Specific to those in the Canadian Armed Forces, those funds are approved and are in place so that regardless of when they come forward, regardless of the measure, it is assured that the veteran will receive the level of benefit they are to receive.

In the case of the RCMP, it's not covered the same way. It's covered through an operational and an annual budget. It's not through what we call a “quasi-stat”. It's through a—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

How do we change that, then? It seems a relatively simple fix.