Public Accounts Committee on Oct. 25th, 2022

[Bob Hamilton]

I think we're going to continually be working on this. The nature of the challenge is such that we will make progress towards it.

With regard to an earlier question, when it was said that we don't know where we're going and how we're doing, we are making progress. We can see it through the CVITP. What the Auditor General said—that we need to do a better job of measuring and coordinating our efforts—is true. I believe we're going to continue to see progress, but I think that, by the nature of issue, we will always have more to do.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I understand.

Have we approached the provinces for the sharing of information? I think of Alberta. They are the ones delivering, by far, most of the services to the vulnerable, whether it's through the AISH program or other programs. I realize there are privacy issues and this and that, but are we using the information that the provinces have?

[Bob Hamilton]

Maybe I'll start on that and then turn it over to Max, who looks after that area.

Definitely, working with the provinces and bringing them in, together with ESDC, because they are players in delivering benefits—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Have we been or are we going to?

[Bob Hamilton]

We have been.

I'll turn it over to Max. He can describe some of what we are doing.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Please be brief, because I have another question for you.

[Maxime Guénette]

Yes, we have been, insofar as we manage some tax information for the provinces. There are a number of tax information-sharing agreements with provinces so that—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

But are we using that tax information to identify the vulnerable in order to deliver services? This is what I'm after. Are we proactively going to Alberta for a list of who's on AISH, the support system, so you can match up to see if they're getting benefits?

That's oversimplifying it, but are we proactively approaching the provinces, seeing as they are the ones who deliver most of the services to the vulnerable?

[Maxime Guénette]

There are inherent exchanges of the type of information you described as part of the work we do with provinces.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Great.

I have one minute left and one final question. I notice that there's a recommendation to work together between StatsCan, CRA and ESDC. We've seen repeatedly through other departments that when you don't have a lead department, it becomes three or two or four departments pointing at each other when it comes to accountability.

Which is the lead agency or lead department on this so that we actually have accountability and someone pushing this, as opposed to, “Well, ESDC is not here today—can't answer for you”? You can't run things by committee. That's basically what I'm saying.

[Bob Hamilton]

Mr. Chair, maybe I'll take a stab at that.

I think it truly is a joint effort between us and ESDC. There are certain programs that ESDC is responsible for—you mentioned OAS and GIS—and certain ones that we are, but we share the same challenge. I don't think it's a problem that we have to do it in partnership. We both feel accountable for this.

To your point about the departmental plan, this has been in the minister's priority mandate letter for years, and it is a priority for us, to make efforts to get access to benefits for youth, newcomers and vulnerable Canadians. So it's there as a priority—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Mr. McCauley, you had asked for some information. I just wanted to make sure you got a response on that. That was to the CRA, wasn't it?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I just wanted to make sure that the CRA heard that request from Mr. McCauley for some information and that it was acknowledged.

[Bob Hamilton]

Yes. We will come back with—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you. I appreciate it. I just wanted to double-check that.

[Bob Hamilton]

We'll want to check the text of it, on whether it was looking for information on people who have filed their returns or not.

Mr. Chair, there was a previous question on whether we have done any work with indigenous communities and StatsCan on the—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'm going to stop you there. It's not that we're not interested—I know that several members will be—but I'm going to leave the questioning to the members. I do appreciate your enthusiasm. Should you feel there's more to be said that you didn't get a chance to say, please send it off to the committee. I just need to be careful that I don't abuse my time and take time away from the members.

We'll turn now to Ms. Yip.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Mr. Hamilton, would you like to finish your point, just briefly?

[Bob Hamilton]

Okay. I'll be very quick.

I said that we would get back with some estimates from the work we did with StatsCan. It's actually in the Auditor General's report. I was just looking at it here: The take-up rate in indigenous communities was lower than among the population in general, at 79% versus 97%. However, the point was made that it used old census data. We're now updating some of that work to use new census data.

I just wanted to add that for the committee members.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Okay. Thank you.

I've reset your clock as well. Go ahead.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you.

Madame Bégin, in your opening statement, you said, “Through data integration of administrative data with other data holdings of StatCan, we can describe the numbers of recipients belonging to particular age, sex, racialized, indigenous identity, or another population or at-risk group.”

In my riding of Scarborough—Agincourt, and I'm sure in many ridings around the country, there are large immigrant populations whose first language is neither English nor French. I know that this population is definitely hard to reach because of the language barriers and other factors that make it more difficult for them to engage in things like filing taxes or filling out census forms. Not all of these people are newcomers.

Do you have a special way to identify people in this particular at-risk group?

[Josée Bégin]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the question.

Depending on the objective of the study or the research we do, one source for us would be to look at the census data, which collects lots of information around language spoken at home. Again, depending on the objective, and the integration of data, we maybe could derive at-risk populations. That's one example.

I do want to say that we collect a large number of surveys. We also have access to administrative data, whether it's from ESDC, CRA or the provinces and the territories. On a regular basis, we do integration of data because the power of data is there when you combine it. We do that respecting confidentiality and the privacy of the information. We also do that through a secure environment, and we use different statistical methods to combine the information.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Has the work of the tax research advisory group been helpful on this front?

[Josée Bégin]

As I said in my opening remarks, the tax research advisory group has been very helpful. We have looked at various initiatives so far. It has been a very active group, and I am very confident that we will be able to support ESDC and CRA with this tax research advisory group.