Public Accounts Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2022

[Karen Hogan]

Is it in the financial commentary, or are you referring to something in the financial statements discussion and analysis?

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

It's not in the financial commentary, but I am sure that—

[Karen Hogan]

Then I'd hand it over to perhaps Mr. Leswick.

[Nicholas Leswick]

Thank you for the question.

There are broadly three categories. There's net income from enterprise Crown corporations. We've talked a lot about Crowns over the last number of hours. There's program revenue from returns on investments. Those are investment returns on some of our large asset holdings, like the exchange fund account. Then there are proceeds on the sales of goods and services, whether that's RCMP policing or regulatory fees or things of that nature. That's kind of the ecosystem of other revenues.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much. That ends our first hour.

Mr. Kram, I understand that you are subbing out and Ms. Kusie is coming in for this next hour.

I'll turn now to Mr. McCauley.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Leswick, I want to get back to the workers benefit. Previously it was a program through which, if you were a low-income worker, you would receive support. Now it's like you'll receive support based on the previous year, despite what your income is going forward, which is where, I understand, in the fall economic statement, that $4 billion is over the years. It's the money for people who, based on their previous year, would not have been eligible for the workers benefit.

I want to get back to that again. How did it come about to do that and to decide that way? How is it fair to those who received CERB perhaps in error and are having it clawed back, whereas we're going out of our way now to say to the worker benefit folks that going forward, we're not concerned what they're making even if they're making extra money, and it's now based on the previous year?

[Nicholas Leswick]

Thank you for continuing the exchange so that we can establish some clarity.

Again, it is a redesign of the program—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I'm more curious to know where the redesign came from. Whose decision was it? Was it a political decision? Was it Finance Canada deciding that they were going to change the law this way?

[Nicholas Leswick]

I mean, it's always a political decision in the sense that the government has made a program choice to fundamentally change the program so that a recipient is now eligible for quarterly payments based on their previous year's income.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Perfect. I'm going to move on.

I'd like to get back to the question I was asking on Friday about GST provisions for writeoff provisions. Gross in 2022, I think it was $51 billion, and the provisions were 10.5% to be written off. In 2021 it was at 9%, so it's a 14% higher provision for writeoff. It's the same with the corporate tax provisions for losses. It's a higher percentage in 2022 than 2021.

I know it's difficult top of mind, but do you know what is driving this higher percentage in the provisions?

[Nicholas Leswick]

Thank you for the question.

With regard to our GST and corporate tax intake, I don't know off the top of my head. I don't know if the comptroller general would have any explanation for an uptick.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

The answer on Friday was that the provisions are higher because the GST is higher, but in fact the percentage of provisions is actually higher. I'm just curious to know what has driven that. One is a 14% increase over the previous year in percentage, and I think the other is about a 9% increase in provisions for the tax writeoff.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I think the comptroller might have a comment. I see him reaching for his microphone.

Go ahead, Mr. Huppé.

[Roch Huppé]

Basically there's been an increase, but we'd have to take a look at exactly.... Sometimes there's a very specific case where, for example, you do a writeoff on the tax side from year to year.

Again, we'd have to take a look at the analysis that was done to—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Could you give us a rough ballpark answer? I can't imagine that there's one specific account, but perhaps you could get back to us and give us an idea.

[Roch Huppé]

Yes.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Sticking with TBS, have there been any decisions made on changes to the public accounts going forward? Of course, there is that survey. Has anything been decided yet?

[Roch Huppé]

No, nothing has been decided yet. Moving forward, we're really at the inception in terms of trying to consult with the key stakeholders. Hopefully, we do get some comments. I think this committee was also involved. We will come back to this committee with the details of what could be the...but there have been no decisions yet, absolutely none.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

But you will come back to present before—

[Roch Huppé]

We will not make any changes without engaging this committee, absolutely.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

In your first opening statement, maybe I misheard it, but it sounded like you were saying that clearing out accrued vacation leaves had been suspended during COVID.

[Roch Huppé]

Yes, in a normal setting.... I'm trying to give you a concrete example. Say I have five weeks of vacation. That means that I can carry five weeks from year to year. Anything above that gets automatically cashed out. That automation of cashing out was ceased for a bit of time and lifted not too long ago.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Can you get back to us with what the average outstanding leave is per public servant and what the dollar cost is to cash out?

[Roch Huppé]

Yes, we could probably do that. Yes, our colleagues at OCHRO, the Office of the Chief Human Resources Officer, would most likely have some kind of data on that, absolutely.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you. That is time.

Ms. Bradford, you have the floor for five minutes.