Public Accounts Committee on Feb. 6th, 2023

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Okay. When was the national vaccine task force established?

[Karen Hogan]

I don't know who you would like to answer that. I know that the vaccine task force made a recommendation in late June about companies that would be viable to have vaccines, but I would hand it over, perhaps, to Mr. Lucas to expand.

[Dr. Stephen Lucas]

Mr. Chair, the vaccine task force was established in May 2020 and provided advice to the government—through the then ministers of health and of innovation, science and economic development—in terms of its assessment of all vaccines being developed globally. That led to the recommendations for the seven candidates, across a range of vaccine platforms, that then led to decisions on the advance purchase agreements with those seven companies.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Page 6 of the report spells out the dates on which these advance purchase agreements were signed between Canada and the various companies.

I've gone to Google and looked up when the American government signed the same advance purchase agreements. The Americans signed their first contract on March 27, 2020, and then another on May 21. The Americans were finishing all of their advance purchase agreements at the end of July, just as we were getting started.

Can anyone explain why we were so many months behind the Americans in signing these advance purchase agreements?

[Dr. Stephen Lucas]

Mr. Chair, I'll respond and then turn to Arianne Reza.

The United States government, through its Operation Warp Speed, was focused on supporting the research and development of the vaccines, working with those companies. Elements of those included purchase commitments.

The Government of Canada launched the vaccine task force in May 2020, and it provided outstanding recommendations to us, which allowed for the initial agreement with Moderna to be signed in July 2020—one of the first in world with Moderna.

I would note that we received submissions from the companies for regulatory approval in the fall of 2020, at the same time or shortly linked to the time—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you. I'm afraid that is the time. I try to allow witnesses to answer, and I allow a little overtime, but I have to stay within some semblance of the time.

I'm turning now to Mr. Fragiskatos.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the officials for being here.

Thank you, particularly, to all of you in the public service who contributed so much during the pandemic. I know you made enormous sacrifices, being away from friends and family, and that's something that is not lost on any of us, regardless of the fact that we have to ask hard questions sometimes. I think that point needs recognition.

Ms. Hogan, I will go to you first.

It's imperfect, naturally. Something like this is not going to...and I don't think Canadians are expecting a perfect approach to have been taken by the government, by the public service, because we're talking about such a rare event, a one in a hundred years pandemic. It's important to highlight lessons learned and areas to improve on, certainly, but your report uses the word “efficient” 14 times, so clearly you think there is something to be said—a great deal to be said—about the efficiency of the overall process.

Can you speak to that?

[Karen Hogan]

I'd like to try to take everybody back to March 2020. I think many of us want to forget that time, but it was a time of great uncertainty and a time when there was a global race to determine who would be able to manufacture vaccines. Add on to that the layer of, “Will they be approved for use in Canada?”

Our view was that the approach taken by the government to sign so many advance purchase agreements was a prudent one in the circumstances, to ensure that every Canadian who wanted to be vaccinated could be vaccinated. We found that Public Services and Procurement Canada expedited its procurement process and still followed some elements that we had highlighted earlier on in the personal protective equipment audit, which they then addressed. They looked at the financial capabilities of the companies. They did integrity checks to ensure that organizations would minimize the risk of unethical business practices.

We felt there was a good adjustment, and that's why we highlighted that this was an efficient procurement process.

The last thing I would highlight is that the provinces and territories received doses, on average, within two days of putting a request in to the federal government. When you think about how vast our country is and the need to control the temperature of a lot of the vaccines going to remote areas, it was an efficient delivery process as well.

Public servants should be commended for what they did to help the country respond to the pandemic.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Auditor General.

If I can, I'll go to the deputy minister, Mr. Lucas. We heard the United States being mentioned. It was just brought up in previous questioning by my colleague. This is a different line of questioning, but I think it's still relevant to look at Canada and the United States.

Do we have data, Deputy Minister, on the number of lives saved in per capita terms if we compare Canada to the United States in the vaccine approaches taken in the two countries?

[Dr. Stephen Lucas]

Mr. Chair, I don't have the comparative numbers offhand. I know, however, that the Public Health Agency has done modelling, which has been published, on the counterfactual of what would have happened had there not been access to vaccines.

I'll turn to Dr. Kochhar to provide that information from a Canadian perspective.

[Dr. Harpreet S. Kochhar]

As Dr. Lucas said, we have done a study in which we did modelling. According to that, almost 800,000 lives were saved, 1.9 million hospitalizations avoided and 34 million COVID cases prevented by making sure there was early access to vaccines and we had public health measures in place.

An independent study by C.D. Howe also said there were around $2.1 billion in savings associated with missed work and treatment. A six-month delay in vaccination, Mr. Chair, would have led to a loss of $156 billion in economic activities in 2021. This is from a C.D. Howe report that has been published already.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you very much. That's an important point.

I have another question, but my timer says I have about 20 seconds left, unless you want to give me an extra couple of minutes, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

No, I think we're done. Thank you very much.

Mr. Perron, you now have the floor for two and half minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I admit that it was not just black and white with the delivery of vaccines and so forth.

The committee's role, however, is to examine the factors that led to the loss of a billion vaccine doses. That is a lot of money for the average person. We have to think of the future.

It is clear that, in March 2020, everyone had to improvise. On the other hand, we have an obligation to be better prepared for the next time. That is why it is important to have local vaccine production. I have concerns about this, though.

You are probably aware of the closure of Medicago in the Quebec City area. I would like to know why that is happening.

What can we do to preserve that company's knowledge, expertise and manpower?

Mr. Lucas, can you answer please?

[Dr. Stephen Lucas]

As the parent company, the Mitsubishi Chemical Group made the business decision to cease support for the operations of its partner, Medicago. We will of course be closely following the next steps in this process in order to preserve Medicago's talent, research laboratories and production facilities as much as possible.

I'll also note more broadly that the government has invested over $2.1 billion in a biomanufacturing life science strategy to support numerous businesses across Canada in all stages of vaccine and therapy production, including an agreement with Moderna to establish a manufacturing facility in Quebec.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Lucas, sorry to interrupt, but our time is very limited, especially for this second round of questions.

In Medicago's case, didn't it take a long time for the vaccine to be approved?

The Pfizer vaccine was approved in December 2020, while the decision on the Medicago vaccine was not made until February 2022.

Can any aspects of this situation be analyzed to improve things for the next time?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Dr. Lucas, you have time for a brief response.

[Dr. Stephen Lucas]

The time required to approve a vaccine depends on the date that Health Canada starts processing the file and the date the company provides the data. I can provide further details on this.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'm sorry, but your time is up.

Mr. Desjarlais, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to continue in the same vein as my colleague from the Bloc in relation to domestic vaccine production. I think many Canadians, when the pandemic hit, were asking the question, where were Canada's vaccines? It's a question we haven't returned to in many ways, in light of the traumatic experience that many Canadians had.

We were able to sustain ourselves with the kinds of purchasing agreements we had from the private sector. However, I want to mention the risks of that and the issues some Canadians may have with them, particularly in light of the wasted vaccines. I think there's evidence to suggest that wasted vaccines are a waste of taxpayer dollars. When considering these agreements that Canadians have been in many ways forced into, not by any kind of prejudice of public service, of course, but because of our needs as a country, I believe it has allowed for a disservice in Canada.

Each authorized vaccine came with an obligation to purchase a specific quantity of doses, and for all but one agreement, options to purchase additional doses. That's what I understand from procurement's point of view.

The problem is that we are reliant on Pfizer's or Moderna's purchasing agreements, rather than Canada's public health needs. This, I think, is a really important part to note. When it comes to the needs of Canadians and the needs of these companies, they are different. This leads to sending billions of taxpayer dollars in some ways—whether by wasted vaccines or not—to big pharmaceutical companies, which we're now bound to having minimum purchase agreements with. That is a tough pill to swallow for many Canadians.

My question would be—procurement could maybe start and then the Public Health Agency—whether they have any other comments in relation to whether or not a Crown corporation that would produce domestically produced vaccines would be better able to deliver on actual public health needs, rather than a private company that would require a minimum purchase.

[Dr. Stephen Lucas]

Mr. Chair, I will respond.

As I noted to the previous honourable member, the government has invested in a biomanufacturing life science strategy. That is invested in further establishing all aspects...from vaccine therapeutic production to the fill and finish of the final bottles. That includes an agreement with Moderna to establish a facility in Quebec—

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Would it do a better job?

[Dr. Stephen Lucas]

In addition to that, the National Research Council has established a biologics manufacturing centre. We are diversifying our ability to respond quickly, and here in Canada, to the threat of a new—

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Do you recognize the waste there?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

That is the time. Thank you very much.

You will have another opportunity, Mr. Desjarlais.

We'll turn again now to Dr. Ellis.

You have the floor for five minutes.