Public Accounts Committee on Feb. 6th, 2023

[Dr. Stephen Lucas]

Mr. Chair, I think it's an important point.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That's not my question.

[Dr. Stephen Lucas]

The contribution to supporting vaccine access in low- and middle-income countries was through financial donations, not only for vaccine purchase—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'm sorry, sir, but I have limited time. Can you answer my question?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Dr. Lucas, the member has asked a question. You might have an interesting point, but either move on or the member can interrupt you.

We'll go back to you.

[Dr. Stephen Lucas]

The additional point is that in addition to offering vaccines, we offered financial support to countries that—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'll just stop you, Dr. Lucas, because you're not answering the question.

We're not getting an answer about the core issue here, which is the large volume of vaccine doses that were thrown in the garbage when there are a substantial number of countries around the world that have vaccination rates of less than 15%.

Ms. Hogan, I want to just briefly ask you about another subject.

We've had two committees adopt motions that have asked your office to look into the government's dealings with McKinsey. I wonder if you can just give us a sense of how you would respond to those kinds of recommendations and what the timelines would be on a possible look into that important issue.

[Karen Hogan]

As you know, we receive many requests from many committees and from the House. We are in the process of doing the ArriveCAN audit, which was requested of us. We recognize that this committee has passed a unanimous motion for us to look at contracting with McKinsey.

As an executive team, we're figuring out the best way to audit, if it's something we can slot in. We will respond to the committee very soon.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you. There may be a concurrence of that happening in the House shortly.

I'm almost out of time.

Ms. Reza, I want to follow up and ask if you could submit in writing the information about what we're obligated to buy, how many doses and how much money. Could you provide that to the committee?

[Arianne Reza]

Certainly.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Yip, you have the floor for five minutes, please.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you.

I'd like to return to the topic of today, which is vaccines.

Dr. Lucas, you tried to tell us earlier about the financial contribution that Canada made to COVAX.

Would you like to elaborate on that, since you were cut off?

[Dr. Stephen Lucas]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The point I was making is that Canada worked in multiple regards to support access to vaccines and their distribution and use in low- and middle-income countries, first through being a leading donor to COVAX, right from the very beginning in 2020. Additionally, Canada provided funds through COVAX and bilaterally with countries to support their vaccine programs—information, distribution and uptake in clinics. Thirdly, as we've been discussing, Canada provided doses through to COVAX and bilaterally with countries. Those elements have supported and helped low- and middle-income countries.

The investments we have made through Global Affairs to support information and support trusted people in communities on vaccine uptake have been important, recognizing some of the challenges in uptake in those countries, as has been noted.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I'd like to ask Dr. Lucas another question, on the COVID-19 vaccination coverage surveillance system.

A review of the data shows that some population characteristics, such as ethnicity or indigenous status, were not included. I think it is really important to have this type of disaggregated data, as information would help target programs or communications to groups that may be at higher risk.

Can you provide an update on this?

[Dr. Stephen Lucas]

I'll respond initially and then turn to Stephen Bent from the Public Health Agency.

As I noted, the government is very focused on working with provinces, territories and other partners on significantly improving the sharing of health data across the country. As I noted, that will be discussed with the Prime Minister and premiers tomorrow.

Extensive work has been done to address a number of the barriers, as I noted in a previous discussion. This includes, as we've been working with provinces and territories, obtaining disaggregated data, which is specific to your question.

I'll turn to Stephen Bent on the surveillance system.

[Stephen Bent]

In terms of our collaboration with the provinces and territories, we've been working since early 2022 to look at the CAEFISS system and at VaccineConnect as it evolves into the new version of that system, to ensure that we have all of the relevant fields incorporated.

Another aspect of this, obviously, is working with provinces and territories and local vaccine administrators to ensure that they submit the data that is required to be able to have that disaggregated information, as you've noted. We're working very hard at it.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you.

This is a question for Ms. Reza.

In terms of moving forward, which, if any, lessons have been learned and have you been able to incorporate in terms of procuring vaccines for variants?

[Arianne Reza]

In general what we strive for is to get early access and early delivery, and we also strive to get access to the latest and greatest in terms of formulations that have been approved by Health Canada.

In terms of some of the contracting best practices that we've brought in, I'm going to turn to my colleague, Mr. Mills.

[Michael Mills, Assistant Deputy Minister, Procurement Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In terms of procurement best practices, some of them were mentioned in the report, in terms of looking at the integrity of companies and doing financial checks, but also what is important for us is to focus on determining your requirements and your needs.

One of the things we did early on in this, in terms of setting our strategy, was to develop a playbook for the acquisition of vaccines. Going forward, we will continue to work with the Public Health Agency and Health Canada to ensure that we understand the needs and the timeliness; that we have the requirements of Canadians well defined upfront; that, as we're conducting our procurements, we'll continue to look at how we ensure that we are integral partners; and that our contracts reflect the needs of Canadians and give us the flexibility to manage those supplies as we go forward.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Ms. Yip, I'm sorry. That is the time.

I'm going to get in one more round, but because of the clock I'm going to limit the government and official opposition to three minutes each.

The two other parties, the Bloc Québécois and the NDP, have a minute and a half each.

Mr. Kram, you have the floor for three minutes, please.

I'll be very tight with the time.

Thank you.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, again, to all the witnesses for being here today. This has been a very interesting meeting.

I would like to just wrap up as many loose ends as I can in the time I have left.

If I look at the advance purchase agreements listed on page six and the ones that were actually approved on page nine, would it be correct to conclude that all the companies delivered a vaccine except Sanofi?

Is that correct?

[Dr. Stephen Lucas]

The six vaccines except Sanofi were approved. All except Medicago delivered doses.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Okay.

What went wrong with Sanofi and Medicago?

[Dr. Stephen Lucas]

Sanofi has not completed the package of information and has modified its vaccine strategy through its work.

Medicago had challenges in terms of the manufacturing of the vaccine and did not enable us to approve its quality and therefore delivery to Canadians.