Evidence of meeting #53 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was infrastructure.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:35 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Your government is telling us that it is doing everything it can, but we have three failed audits.
It's important that we understand why, Ms. Wilson. I understand that it can be difficult, but Canadians need to know exactly why the deputy minister can't answer why a critical failure like this happened, which resulted in eight houses being lost.
12:35 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
You're talking about Shamattawa in particular.
12:35 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
It is one example, but there are many failures we can go off.
12:35 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
The whole thing....
I think that's why we're here, Mr. Chair, to explain who's responsible. We're here to provide information. We're here to talk about all the details you want, but we're not here to blame anyone in particular, that's certain.
12:35 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Accountability is important. Is the government responsible for this failure?
It's a fair question, I feel, Chair.
12:35 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
Everyone is responsible, to some degree, when it comes to emergency management.
12:35 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
No, the government on its own is not responsible. Any—
12:35 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
Okay, if the Government of Canada is not responsible, who is?
12:35 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
I don't know. I guess this is an inquiry that will continue until you find out—
12:35 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
The Auditor General said it was the Government of Canada. You said you accepted the audit. Do you accept that the Auditor General said Canada failed?
12:35 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
I do not accept that Canada has failed, no.
12:35 p.m.
NDP
Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB
No, the Auditor General said that. Do you accept her findings that your ministry's failed?
March 20th, 2023 / 12:35 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
We accept the findings, absolutely. We accept all the recommendations. We're prepared to make plans to implement changes for all those recommendations.
12:35 p.m.
NDP
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Mr. Desjarlais, that is the time. You will have another opportunity, but I want to flag that.
I turn now to Mr. Kram, who is splitting his time with Mr. McCauley....
Do you want me to be the splitter, or are you going to flag when you're done?
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
12:35 p.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I want to get back to the departmental results. I'm going to quote right from the government website: “These reports provide details on departmental priorities expected results and related resource requirements for the upcoming fiscal year”.
Again, there's not a single item in there from this horrendous study, listed as a departmental priority.
I go to Peter Drucker, who talks about not being able to improve something if you can't measure it.
We had Mr. Desjarlais trying to find out who's accountable for all this, and all we're getting back is word salad, or, “It's not us.” How are we ever going to get by these roadblocks if no one's ever responsible, no one's ever accountable and it's always someone else's fault?
I guess it's Harper's fault, of course, but that's a given.
How are we going to get past this? We have your own departmental plan, which doesn't list this as a priority, and the response is, we have a different study.
12:35 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
I would suggest that we've done better than incorporate some high-level language in a departmental plan. We have a very detailed management action plan before you that outlines particular milestones and very specific activities. That is a plan.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Action plans don't translate into official documents, such as the estimates process, to get the money.
Section 8.17 of the AG's report says: “The department told us that it had insufficient funding to cover all eligible structural mitigation projects.”
Is that still the case?
12:35 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services
It's a case of understanding that we do have infrastructure funding and that we do have these 54 projects available, but.... Maybe Rory can take a stab at that.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Do you have the money approved for those or the funding set aside for the process to approve?