Public Accounts Committee on March 20th, 2023

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

That is your time, yes.

Mr. Fragiskatos, you have the floor for five minutes to end us off today.

It's over to you.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the officials, again, for being here, certainly, and for the work that you have in front of you. I think this is one of the most challenging issues facing the country, to put it mildly. You are, in many ways, on the front line from the government side in trying to confront those issues.

Let me ask a general question on the report.

In response to the recommendations made, which do you consider to be the most important? What will be the course of action to address it specifically?

[Gina Wilson]

They are all important. Even the Auditor General will say they are all equally important.

However, for me, I would say that the shift that's required from moving from a response and recovery mode to a prevention and mitigation approach.... Greater investment and attention to that can significantly reduce the costs and damages when events occur. No one has mastered this yet. Provinces and territories are trying to make that shift. Countries around the world are trying to make that shift to mitigation resilience and risk reduction.

It's an important message, I would say, for this committee, and it's an important message for the Auditor General and all to continue to amplify this.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you, Deputy Minister.

How do we make that change? How does government pivot in that direction? What are the things that government is currently doing to go in that direction that you would highlight as the keys?

[Gina Wilson]

It is certainly now recognized that more efforts, like prevention and moving in ways to address mitigation.... Like I said, no one has mastered it yet, even at the United Nations.

I was reading recently about the Sendai framework, which recognizes that all countries need to be moving towards more disaster risk reduction. It clearly states that governments are responsible, but it also states that all stakeholders, including the private sector, individual citizens and communities, are also responsible.

I think it is for all of us to be aware of this and to understand that we all play a role in it.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

I asked a question of the minister about international engagement that exists. I mentioned Australia as a particular example, but now you have mentioned the United Nations.

To what extent are we involved in those conversations, understanding emergency management through that lens, understanding what other countries are doing, their practices and incorporating those stories of success, where they exist, into what we do here and tailoring our response accordingly?

[Gina Wilson]

I know that we work with Public Safety, definitely, to engage in those negotiations at the United Nations, such as the Sendai framework or the broader disaster reduction.... What is it called?

[Kenza El Bied]

Disaster reduction, and, as the deputy said, we are really embedded with Public Safety, and we participate in those conferences now. Since COVID we have been participating in a virtual way.

This year, three weeks ago was the first time that Public Safety and other departments have had a chance to attend the conference in person after having participated virtually. We are collecting this information and working with other departments to get those lessons learned.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

With what I think will be my last question—and I am just looking at the chair—I want to go back to this point on advanced payments, just to understand this. There has been a policy change to reflect the desire to move in that direction.

What was the approach before? Would previous Canadian governments literally ask for receipts after the fact and then reimburse? Is that how it went? If so, what was the effect of that on emergency management in general?

[Joanne Wilkinson]

Yes, grosso modo, that was the approach. In fact, as mentioned earlier, with the advance payments, certainly there will be accounting after the fact.

The advance payment is to ease the cash flow on the nation and to ensure that they have those resources available to deploy immediately, particularly when there is imminent risk, as we look at a risk-based approach in terms of ensuring that people have those resources on hand.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

That's pretty much it, unless you want to be very speedy.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

On that point about accounting after the fact, could you elaborate?

[Joanne Wilkinson]

Certainly. We work directly with nations to ensure that we can assist them, if need be. Some nations do not need our assistance in that regard, but when communities may continue to be struggling in terms of band offices being affected or those types of things, we will work directly with the nation to ensure that we have appropriate accounting on record and that any additional payments that may be needed pursuant to those advance payments are made.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you.

Thank you to all the witnesses for appearing today to hear from members and to answer all our questions. We appreciate your coming, and I'm sure this is an issue that will continue to grip the committee. We will turn our attention to the final report and leave it at that for now.

Are you going to say something, Mr. Genuis?

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I was just going to ask if it had ever been considered to appoint a special rapporteur to work on this issue.

[An hon. member]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

All right.

Thank you very much, Mr. Genuis. I deserved that for asking.

I am going to adjourn the meeting.