Public Accounts Committee on Oct. 12th, 2023

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I want to break that response down a bit more.

You mentioned you were dealing with a number of departments. Can you name those departments that did not inform you about the RCMP investigation?

[Karen Hogan]

It's my understanding, from reading the article, that it was the Canada Border Services Agency that did the referral, so I would have expected them to inform us.

Through the course of our audit, we always ask questions linked to actual, suspected or alleged fraud, and we expect that there's an ongoing responsibility for officials to keep us informed of any matters that are relevant to the subject we are auditing. I am disappointed that they did not tell us while we were there.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Not only are you disappointed, but Canadians are disappointed. Members of Parliament are disappointed.

You have been charged with a very serious responsibility. One would think, at the very least, that the government would exercise some transparency and accountability to notify you about this investigation. It failed. It failed you, and it failed Canadians.

Moving on to the actual story, was that read by you on October 3, when it was released?

[Karen Hogan]

I read it at some point. I can't tell you that I actually read it on the third, but I know I've read it and I've read several articles since then.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Before I get into more specific questions, I take it you read it thoroughly. It's a very long article.

[Karen Hogan]

I did. I actually reread it last night just in case, but yes, it is a very lengthy article.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

As the Auditor General for this country, did it raise red flags to you?

[Karen Hogan]

In my mind, it covers one half of the story, and I think I needed to understand some of the statements in the article.

It has caused me, as an auditor, to ask my team to go back and make sure that we've covered off everything we should have. We have the intention of reinterviewing people we interviewed and asking them questions. We have the intention of interviewing new people as a result of the article—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Can you identify who the new people are that you're interviewing?

[Karen Hogan]

I'm still in conversations with the Canada Border Services Agency about that. We want to inform them, but we told them a few days ago that our intention is to speak directly with certain contractors. We asked them to let them know that we would be doing that.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Okay.

[Karen Hogan]

Until we've landed on that.... As I said, we don't typically share the scope of our work and who we talk to during our audit—

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

I'm not asking that. I understand your preamble—the opening statement—and the restrictions that you have.

As far as new people to interview are concerned, would they include the two stakeholders from Botler?

[Karen Hogan]

Again, we're going to figure out who we want to talk to. We still have to request certain information. The information I would like to see is the actual allegations that were given to the department. Until I've seen those, I'm not sure whether we want to interview anyone from the organization that laid those allegations.

[Larry Brock, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

At the core of the allegations, they use the phrase “misconduct”, but when you do a deep dive into the particular story, it goes beyond misconduct. It goes into criminality, and that's why the RCMP is investigating it. There are allegations regarding identity theft, fraudulent and forged résumés, contractual theft, fraudulent billing, price-fixing and collusion—all with senior bureaucrats with the Government of Canada and the three contractors in question. Those are GC Strategies, Dalian Enterprises and Coradix.

At the heart of the article is—

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Brock, that is your time, but you'll have another opportunity to pick that up again.

Thank you.

Ms. Khalid, you now have the floor for five minutes. Go ahead, please.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'll start by thanking Ms. Hogan, our Auditor General, for her time today and for being so forthcoming with all of the questions.

We realize this is a constituency week, so at this time, Mr. Chair, I move that the committee do now adjourn.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I have a motion to adjourn the meeting, which is not debatable.

I'll ask the clerk for a roll call.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 6; nays 4)

Thank you.

I adjourn the meeting.