Public Accounts Committee on Oct. 24th, 2023

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I agree. We have already seen that can be very helpful.

Ms. Khalid, you have the floor, please.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I agree with Mrs. Shanahan. I think there are a number of amendments that we would like to propose. It will be easier for us to be able to work out that language among ourselves once we've been emailed Madame Sinclair-Desgagné's amendments. We can work out that language along with all members around this table and then come to a consensus, hopefully, as to how we want to move forward on Mr. Stewart's very excellent motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Very good.

Mr. Stewart, you have the floor, please.

[Jake Stewart, Conservative, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just wanted to say that I thought we were debating the Bloc motion, and I wanted to indicate that we were fine with the motion.

I meant the amendment, sorry. We're fine with the motion anyway.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

It is the amendment to the motion.

[Jake Stewart, Conservative, Miramichi—Grand Lake, NB]

Yes. I thought we were debating the amendment to the motion, and we're fine with it.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Yes. That's what we're looking at now.

There is a desire on the government side to suspend.

I'm going to let Mr. McCauley say a few words first.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I echo my colleague Mr. Stewart's comments, but I think we're getting ahead of ourselves with the Liberals wanting to suspend to discuss the motion. I think we first need to deal with the amendment, debate that, and settle that before going into suspension to discuss the motion. I think we're getting a bit ahead of ourselves.

If they are proposing amendments, are they proposing subamendments to the amendment or amendments to the original motion? If it's subamendments to the amendment, we should just get on with it and discuss it. The Liberals have had it on notice. They've had the time.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'm going to suspend here, for two reasons. One, I have a request, but more importantly, the clerk needs a few minutes to prepare the translation of the amendments to the motion.

I will suspend for four minutes, unless the clerk needs a little longer. If I get a signal from the parties that the suspension needs to go on a little longer for you to discuss it, that's great.

I will suspend for four minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Order. I'm going to resume this meeting.

Is there someone who would like to bring us all up to speed?

Ms. Khalid, you have the floor.

If other members want to speak, just put up your hand while Ms. Khalid is speaking, and I'll record it.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

We propose a subamendment to Nathalie's amendment. The first part is fine: “(a) undertake a study of one meeting”, etc. Then we add, “and invite the NCC, including CEO Tobi Nussbaum and Treasury Board and PSPC officials to testify on the matter”. Then we have “(b) report to the House and that pursuant to Standing Order 109, the government table a comprehensive response”.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I would like to start with a reaction from Ms. Sinclair-Desgagné.

Just a moment please. I am hearing that it is not quite right.

In the meantime, Ms. Khalid, would you or one of your colleagues be able to send that subamendment to the clerk? We're just going to review this to make sure we're on track.

The challenge we have from a procedural point, Ms. Khalid, is that part of your amendment amends Madame Sinclair-Desgagné's amendment, which is in line and appropriate, but the other part amends the motion. I have to deal with one of them at a time, unless there is agreement from all parties to accept your changes. I can do that if there's agreement all around. Otherwise, we just have to take it apart and it will take a little more time.

Ms. Khalid, do your changes include what Madam Sinclair-Desgagné...?

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Yes, I want to propose subamendments.

What we tried to do in this exercise, Chair, as you suspended—thank you for doing that—was for all of us to come together to agree on language that would just tweak Nathalie's amendment.

What we're proposing here is basically a subamendment to the amendment presented. That's what you have before you. I'm happy to read out the specific subamendment if you'd like.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Yes, go ahead from the top.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

Do you want me to read the whole motion?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Yes. That's just so everyone is crystal clear on it.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Chair, to be clear, are we going to vote on the subamendment to the amendment first and then get to the amendment, or is it your intent to have UC to have her read in a whole new motion to override the amendment?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

If there is UC, then we will just adopt this. If there isn't, we'll have to go piece by piece.

You will each have the final say on that.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

When will we hear the final motion to vote on?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Go ahead, Ms. Khalid.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

It reads:

That, given recent reports that the National Capital Commission (NCC) paid over $8 million to replace a barn at Rideau Hall, the committee:

(a) undertake a study of one meeting—

There's some language here that Nathalie proposed, but I don't have it in front of me.

—and invite the NCC, including CEO Tobi Nussbaum and the Treasury Board and PSPC officials to testify on the matter; and

(b) report to the House and that pursuant to Standing Order 109, the government table a comprehensive response.

That would be the complete text of the motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you.

Okay, here is what I'm told. I can deal with this in one of two ways. If members are in agreement with this change on a UC, I can accept it and it will replace what is already on the table.

If, however, you want to debate it, Ms. Khalid is making two changes. The first, dealing with the CEO, addresses the subamendment. We'll deal with that first, and then we go back to the amendment to the motion. Then we will deal with the change to that second line, because that really is an amendment to the motion.

They're both in order. I just have to deal with them either all at once.... If MPs agree with this in UC, you probably agree that the motion would pass. Of course, we'd still have a vote on it. If you want to debate it, first it's the subamendment and then the amendment to the motion.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

To be clear, this subamendment replaces the amendment and would become a new motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

That's correct.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Can we have someone read it out? Ms. Khalid referenced some new wording from Ms. Sinclair-Desgagné.

Can we have someone read the final motion so that we're all clear? I'm sure we'll have UC on it, but we should have that final motion.