Evidence of meeting #92 for Public Accounts in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.
A video is available from Parliament.
Associate Deputy Minister and Business Lead, Benefits Delivery Modernization, Department of Employment and Social Development
Since the start of the program in 2017, I believe that's consistent. I can validate that number.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Great.
This looks like it's approximately 172 contracts that would be totalling that $669 million.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I think it's approximately seven contracts.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Okay.
Maybe there are overarching contracts. There are a number of vendors...like dozens of vendors.
Associate Deputy Minister and Business Lead, Benefits Delivery Modernization, Department of Employment and Social Development
As indicated in our comments earlier, we have four main system integrators, which are the vast majority of the contracts.
However, during the life of the program, since 2017, there have been lots of other, smaller dollar value contracts.
December 14th, 2023 / 11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
There have been quite a number of contracts.
Were any of these contracts sole-sourced contracts?
Associate Deputy Minister and Business Lead, Benefits Delivery Modernization, Department of Employment and Social Development
All of the significant dollar value contracts over the $40,000 sole-source limit have been competitively procured.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
You're saying that everything over $40,000 was competitive, meaning it was advertised in Canada Gazette or somewhere else publicly and it went through a competitive process.
Associate Deputy Minister and Business Lead, Benefits Delivery Modernization, Department of Employment and Social Development
Again, I'll lean on my colleagues from Public Services and Procurement Canada—
Conservative
Associate Deputy Minister and Business Lead, Benefits Delivery Modernization, Department of Employment and Social Development
We have leveraged national master standing offers that are determined through competitive processes, etc., to be able to advance the work.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Great.
Could the advertisements for all of those individual contracts please be forwarded to this committee by January 19, 2024?
Surely a lot of those wouldn't still be open to the public. Could all of those please be forwarded to this committee?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I'll just add that we can certainly send PSPC's contracts, which are at a higher dollar value.
We will work together to see where they were advertised, for the ones that ESDC did under its own contracting authority and for Shared Services as well.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Just to be clear, are you saying that any contract that is less than $40,000 wouldn't be advertised publicly?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Yes. According to the contract regulations, contracts for under $40,000 can be provided to a smaller competition. It doesn't necessarily have to be publicly advertised.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Okay. That's not something that would go through a public competitive process; it would be something that would be potentially granted for whatever rationale would be better.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Most departments do it by inviting three bids, so there's a level of competitiveness, but it is not necessarily automatically put on the government tender site, which is CanadaBuys.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Even if something is not on the government tender site, if there was a process where there were different vendors that went through a competitive process, perhaps we could please have tabled for this committee as well whatever the outreach was that would have led to those contracts.
Associate Deputy Minister and Business Lead, Benefits Delivery Modernization, Department of Employment and Social Development
We will provide whatever information we have regarding that value for you.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Please do so by January 19, 2024.
In addition to that, could you please provide the metrics and scoring criteria that would have been utilized with this competitive process in order to determine who would receive those contracts?
Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development
Are you speaking to the large system integrator contract?
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
I'm referring to any contracts that have been given for the benefits modernization program. If you are putting it out to public tender and it is not a sole-source contract, what were the metrics you used to determine who would get that contract—whether you have three people or whether you have a larger number, and regardless of what the dollar value was?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
From a methodology perspective, we can provide the generic frames that were used. Obviously, the commercial confidence of which suppliers won and didn't win may be more commercially confidential.
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative John Williamson
Thank you, Mrs. Gray. That is your time.
I think that was all well understood, and, of course, our analysts are recording it as well.
Incidentally, just so you're aware, I did add 20 seconds to Mrs. Gray's time, because she left a lot on the table in her first round and wasn't familiar with the practice of this committee to allow the question to be answered in the time and for the answer to run over.
We have Ms. Bradford for five minutes, please.