Public Accounts Committee on Feb. 9th, 2026

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Hello, everyone. It's nice to have you all in on this cold Monday in Ottawa.

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 24 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Accounts.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members are attending in person. I don't think anyone is attending remotely, but that, of course, is always an option.

I'd like to remind participants of the following points.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. All comments should be addressed through the chair, although to clarify, I don't look for witnesses to have me name them. I like a bit of back-and-forth between members and witnesses as they offer their answers to questions.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)g), the committee begins its study of the Public Accounts of Canada 2024 and the Public Accounts of Canada 2025, referred to the committee on Tuesday, December 17, 2024, and Friday, November 7, 2025.

I'd now like to welcome our witnesses. I understand that we have opening remarks from two of the three.

From the Office of the Auditor General, we have Karen Hogan, Auditor General of Canada.

You'll have an opening statement in a few minutes.

We have Ms. Garda, principal, and Mr. Matte, principal.

It's nice to see you both.

From the Treasury Board Secretariat, we have Annie Boudreau, comptroller general of Canada.

You'll have an opening statement as well, right after Ms. Hogan.

We also have Blair Kennedy, executive director, government accounting policy and reporting, and John Daley, senior director, public accounts and advisory services.

Thank you all for coming in today.

Lastly, from the Department of Finance, we have Nick Leswick, deputy minister, along with Evelyn Dancey, assistant deputy minister, economic, fiscal and intergovernmental policy branch.

Without further ado, you'll each have approximately five minutes.

Ms. Hogan, the floor is yours.

[Karen Hogan, Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General]

Mr. Chair, thank you for this opportunity to discuss our audit of the Government of Canada's consolidated financial statements for fiscal years 2023–2024 and 2024–2025.

I would like to begin by acknowledging that this hearing is taking place on the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Joining me today are Sana Garda, principal, and Étienne Matte, principal of our financial audit.

The government's financial statements are one of its key accountability documents. Our financial statement audit is the largest audit conducted by my office. It requires, at one point or another, the participation of almost all of our 250 financial auditors. The observations and findings help Parliament exercise oversight of public spending, promote transparency and encourage good financial management.

Our auditor's report on the Government of Canada's financial statements begins at page 63 of the French version of the 2025 Public Accounts of Canada, volume 1, and at page 59 of the English version. Similarly, our auditor's report can be found on page 61 of the French version of the 2024 Public Accounts of Canada, volume 1, and at page 57 in the English version.

We issued a clean opinion on the government's consolidated financial statements for both fiscal years. A clean opinion indicates that the information in the financial statements is presented fairly and in accordance with Canadian public sector accounting standards. In other words, you can rely on the information presented in the financial statements for both years.

In support of parliamentarians, I am happy that our office has provided, for the last 10 years, an annual commentary derived from our financial audit work. This report highlights important matters we want to bring to Parliament's attention from all of our federal financial audits, including our audit of the government's consolidated financial statements. For example, in both the 2024 and 2025 commentaries, we reported on ongoing problems with pay administration and deficiencies in IT general controls over some key government systems, such as those that process payments.

Our latest commentary draws attention to significant transactions and raises new concerns with National Defence's process for recording operating expenses. This is in addition to the issues we have been reporting for years relating to National Defence's management of inventory and asset pooled items. As spending by National Defence is expected to increase over the next several years, it is important to strengthen internal controls to improve the accuracy and reliability of information used to support budget management and decision-making.

In our 2025 commentary, we also noted that 77% of Crown corporations did not have their corporate plans approved before the start of their fiscal year. This is similar to the rate reported in the 2024 commentary. Delayed approvals can cause operational inefficiencies, project delays or additional costs. In 2025, we also noted that 80% of Crown corporations experienced delays in the appointment of members to their boards of directors. This type of delay affects a board's ability to fulfill its important governance role.

In closing, I would like to thank the senior officials and staff of the many departments, agencies and Crown corporations involved in our audit of the government's financial statements. We appreciate their ongoing collaboration.

This concludes my opening remarks. I would be pleased to answer any questions the committee may have.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you, Ms. Hogan.

Ms. Boudreau, you have the floor for about five minutes.

[Annie Boudreau, Comptroller General of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat]

Mr. Chair, thank you for the opportunity to discuss the 2024 and 2025 public accounts of Canada.

I would like to begin by acknowledging that the land on which we gather today is the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

I have with me today Blair Kennedy, executive director of government accounting policy and reporting, and John Daley, senior director of public accounts and advisory services.

The government is committed to being open, transparent and accountable to Canadians and parliamentarians. To that end, the public accounts are part of a series of reports that describe how the government spent the funds it requested from Parliament and how it generated revenue. The public accounts include the government's audited consolidated financial statements and other detailed financial information for the fiscal year that ended on March 31.

By reporting on how taxpayer dollars were spent, they provide information to parliamentarians to enable them to understand and evaluate the financial position and transactions of the government and carry out effective oversight.

The requirement for the production of the public accounts of Canada is set out in the Financial Administration Act. Deputy heads and chief financial officers are responsible for the accuracy of the information provided and are required to follow Government of Canada accounting policies, which are based upon the public sector accounting standards.

The production and finalization of public accounts are a joint responsibility.

As Comptroller General, one of my responsibilities is to provide leadership on financial management within the Government of Canada. In this capacity, my office provides leadership across government on accounting standards and the preparation of departmental financial statements, including the public accounts.

The Department of Finance is responsible for the section devoted to discussing and analyzing financial statements, which helps us understand the variances from the budget. The Receiver General compiles data received from departments, agencies and Crown corporations and publishes the public accounts. Finally, the consolidated financial statements in the public accounts are audited by the Office of the Auditor General.

I am pleased to note that for the 27th consecutive year, the Auditor General has provided a clean or unmodified audit opinion on the government's annual consolidated financial statements. This is a positive reflection of the high quality of the government's financial reporting and the work of my colleagues across the public service.

I would also like to address the issue of the timing of the tabling of public accounts.

Under the Financial Administration Act, the public accounts are tabled in Parliament no later than December 31 of each year, when Parliament is sitting. Although the deadline is set by the act, the effective date of the tabling varies from year to year within this period.

As noted in the Office of the Auditor General's “Commentary on the 2024–2025 Financial Audits”, the improvements made at the time of tabling of the public accounts reflect the government's ongoing efforts to improve the usefulness, quality and presentation of the public accounts.

As the committee wishes to continue examining the 2024 public accounts while studying the 2025 public accounts, I would like to provide a few highlights for both years.

In fiscal year 2024-25, the government posted an annual operating deficit of $36.3 billion, compared with a deficit of $61.9 billion in fiscal year 2023-24. With respect to government revenues, in fiscal year 2024-25, they increased to $511 billion, from $459 billion in fiscal year 2023-24, due to an increase in personal and corporate income tax and other revenues.

In addition, during the fiscal year 2024–2025, total federal spending was $547 billion. Of that, $359 billion, which is about 66%, or two-thirds, was spent on transfer payments. It was also the case for the fiscal year 2023–2024.

This concludes my remarks. I would be more than happy to answer all your questions.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much.

We'll now begin our first round of questions, which will consist of three members with six minutes each.

Mr. McCauley, you'll lead off first, please.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thanks, Chair.

Thank you, AG Hogan, and everyone else for the commentary.

I want to start with Madam Boudreau.

Who writes the copy of the public accounts? By the “copy”, I mean the editorial and the explanations, not the numbers. Who writes out the copy?

[Annie Boudreau]

Are you talking about the financial statements discussion and analysis, FSDA?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I mean volume I, volume II or volume III. I can pick something at random. “Transfer payment” is “A transfer of money from a government”, etc. Who is writing that?

The reason I ask is that when I'm looking at the public accounts—and I appreciate that they've received a clean audit—it looks as if there are Liberal government talking points in them. I don't believe these should be in the public accounts.

I'll give you an example. On page 8, in section 1, it says, “The government is moving toward a new capital budgeting approach that distinguishes its day-to-day operational spending from expenditure that stimulates public and private sector capital formation.” These are talking points right out of the Prime Minister's Office, and this is for after this year's public accounts. It doesn't affect the 2024-25 public accounts.

Why were Liberal talking points put in last year's public accounts? Who wrote them and who approved them?

[Nick Leswick, Deputy Minister, Department of Finance]

The financial statements discussion and analysis are a product of the Department of Finance. We try to find an appropriate balance between representing—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Let me stop you right there. I appreciate that.

These changes, which have been widely discredited, I think, by the PBO and others, are for the current fiscal year, not the previous year. Why are Liberal talking points in last year's public accounts, which are supposed to be a non-partisan public accounting, signed off on by the AG? Why is that in last year's public accounts? I'll be blunt here. Is it appropriate?

AG Hogan, do you think it's appropriate?

[Karen Hogan]

Perhaps I'll start, and then I'll let Mr. Leswick go.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Answer briefly, because I don't have a lot of time.

[Karen Hogan]

The audit “Opinion”, which starts on page 59 in the English version of the 2025 public accounts, covers the financial statements that follow.

When it comes to the financial statements discussion and analysis, we don't opine on that. We are associated with it, so we make sure that it's not misleading.

Part of the responsibility of a government, in that document in the financial statements discussion and analysis, is to talk about the future and to talk about risks and how they're managed.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Do you think these specific comments are appropriate, Mr. Leswick?

[Nick Leswick]

I certainly take your point, sir.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

It says, “stimulates public and private sector capital formation”.

[Nick Leswick]

It was trying to provide some sort of, as Ms. Hogan said, directional framing for—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

On page 9, in section 1, it continues: “the elimination of the consumer carbon tax on fuel products further contributed to lower inflation”, which, of course, was denied for years by the government. This is for discussion for 2025-26. It was eliminated then. It didn't affect the inflation issue in 2024-25, which the public accounts cover.

Again, it looks to me that it was added in purely as a stunt to promote the current government, because it has nothing to do with the 2024-25 year.

[Nick Leswick]

Do you want me to respond?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Yes, please.

Am I wrong here? I haven't seen this in past public accounts. I've never seen previous public accounts comment on future inflation being changed because of—

[Nick Leswick]

Yes, I certainly take your point, and we'll be very mindful of that going forward.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay.

I want to get back to the carbon tax. I see talk about providing money back to small and medium-sized companies. How much is still there to be paid out? I ask because it had been promised for years that it would be paid out.

The public accounts comment on the huge majority of it being paid out, but then talks further about it being paid out over years, so when will it be paid out? Do you know?

[Nick Leswick]

That's a good question. I don't have the remaining balance available to me, but we can follow up with you directly or with the committee with that answer.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay.

Let's talk about the liabilities portion, where it talks about “contingent liabilities”. Those have jumped from $2 trillion to $3 trillion.

I realize what “contingent” means. Madam Boudreau or Mr. Leswick, what has changed so that there's a $1-trillion jump in our contingent liabilities? Is that the ruling around Richmond, with the land claim there?

[Annie Boudreau]

I don't think we have a $1-trillion increase in contingent liabilities. From what I remember, it is going from $56 billion to $54 billion, but there is no $1-trillion increase in contingent liabilities.