Public Accounts Committee on March 25th, 2026

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Shall the committee order a reprint of the bill as amended for the use of the House of Commons at report stage?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

That's very good. I believe that ends our business here on Bill C-230.

I'm told that this is the first time this committee has considered a PMB in 21 years, so congratulations. Thank you.

I will excuse the witnesses. Thank you very much for being here today and for indulging us in getting this resolved quickly.

I'll excuse the legislative clerks as well. Thank you very much for your assistance and guidance on this. We hope to see you back before 21 years.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'll suspend for about two minutes to get everyone settled in here.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'll bring the meeting back into session.

Before I recognize Monsieur Deltell, I just want to get to this note.

I'm not sure how long this session is going to go, but I just want to alert members to an upcoming visit to Parliament by the United Kingdom's Public Accounts Committee as part of their inquiry into the restoration and renewal program of the Palace of Westminster.

Their visit is scheduled over two days in mid-April. I'm going to work to schedule an informal meeting on Tuesday, April 14. While in Ottawa, the chair of the United Kingdom's Public Accounts Committee would like to meet with our members to discuss the Centre Block rehabilitation, including project progress, long-term vision, costing and governance.

I just want to flag this for committee members. I'm going to endeavour to also invite some of the parliamentarians who are involved more closely with the restoration, but of course our committee considered the Auditor General's report. I would encourage you all to come once I have a time for that.

It would be a good opportunity, as well, to engage with the U.K. Public Accounts Committee. That's the committee I've engaged with the most of any committee around the world in the last couple of years. As they are part of the Mother of Parliaments, there are always lessons to be learned there. However, in this case, they are coming to speak to us because they want to know how our restoration has gone—the good, the bad and the hopefully not too ugly.

There is a unique wrinkle, in that apparently their parliamentarians, the members of their House of Commons, are refusing to leave Westminster for renovations. We at least have done it in a way that is more efficient. We vacated the building to get the work done. However, apparently some of their members of Parliament are saying that they have a right to be there and that they won't leave their offices. We'll leave that problem to them, but we will certainly have lessons we can share with them. I'll share those details with you over the recess as I get them finalized.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Are they going on the tour?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Yes, they will be, I think, seeing the inside of the building and all of that. They also know that our Auditor General did a report on it. I think they will be meeting with the Auditor General as well, but there might be some lessons they can pick up from members of Parliament about how we felt with respect to the renovations that are happening there, how we dealt with it, the progress that's been made and some of the negotiations that have happened to ensure that the building is to our liking when we move back into it.

There's more on that to come.

Mr. Deltell, you have the floor.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to move a motion in accordance with what we all agreed on following our friendly agreement, or what could be called a moral commitment.

By the way, maybe we could talk about a “gentlemen and gentlewomen's agreement”. That would be more specific and respectful in 2026.

Seriously, let me get back to our motion.

Our motion essentially seeks to allow the mayor of Laval and the Minister of National Revenue to shed some light on the event that deeply shocked those who were made aware of the situation. I'm referring to the case where the former mayor convicted of fraud had hidden money in another country on which the Canada Revenue Agency asked the municipality to pay an additional tax, essentially making it pay twice for the fraud. We find that completely unacceptable.

We know there are ongoing discussions, but we feel Canadians have a right to know what happened and what led to this decision. I'd like to remind everyone that the Government of Quebec acted more fairly and responsibly by deciding not to exercise this prerogative. I'd also remind everyone that the person who made this decision, the former Minister of Finance of the Quebec Government, Mr. Carlos Leitão, is the Parliamentary Secretary to the current federal Minister of Finance. I therefore invite the government to take direction from its parliamentary secretary, who, as early as 2016, acted in good faith and very appropriately, and adopt the same approach.

Now, before we go any further, I'd like to remind everyone that the objective is to get to the bottom of this.

In good faith, what we want is to have the minister and the mayor explain the situation. Keep in mind, folks, that what we are talking about here with this issue is something that can apply to other cities. It can also apply to other situations like that.

Secondly, keep in mind that it is our duty to ask questions of the Crown minister, and it is the duty of the Crown minister to address the issue and to answer questions. This is a privilege that we have, but also among the privileges we have is protection. We can say here what we have to say without being afraid of having some people say, okay, we'll see you in court. This is a privilege we have, and it is also a responsibility.

That's why I leave it to each parliamentarian's sense of responsibility. As parliamentarians, we have privileges, and first among those is to be able to ask questions or make comments that we might hesitate to ask or make outside the House for fear of being sued. We can say things for which we cannot be sued. It's our privilege, but also our duty. I therefore invite all parliamentarians at this table to support this proposal.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Thank you very much, Mr. Deltell.

Ms. Yip, you have the floor.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Deltell, could you clarify? Your motion says, “invite the Minister of National Revenue”. Do you mean to say “Minister of Finance”, or is it the secretary of state for national revenue?

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC]

Thank you so much. You're right. Obviously, this is the same person: François-Philippe Champagne, the member from Shawinigan, a guy who is very happy when he has the floor. I think he will not be very shy.

I'm sorry. You're right. I identify in my presentation the finance minister. In this specific issue, we're talking about the national revenue minister.

We also know that in the new government, the Prime Minister appointed a secretary of state, another guy who appreciates it when he has the floor. I have no problem with that, but at the end of the day, with all the respect that I have for the secretary of state, the real one is the minister. I want to be very respectful to my friend who is the state secretary, but at the end of the day, the real guy, the guy behind that, is the national revenue minister, and that is François-Philippe Champagne. I'm pretty sure that he will enjoy being there.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I will recognize Mr. Lemire first, and then I'll go to Ms. Tesser Derksen.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the member for his answer. It does make sense to hear from the minister on a case like this. I just read the motion again, and I too would like to ask the member a question.

Wouldn't it also be interesting to invite former Mayor Vaillancourt to appear before the committee, without necessarily sending a summons, which we can do? Can't we just invite him to come and answer our questions?

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC]

We think there are two parties at play here. The third is the population of Laval, who'd have to pay for this decision, but they're represented by the current mayor. CRA is asking the municipality to take action. That's why we believe the best option is to invite the party making the request and the party who'd be on the hook. This approach was agreed to with the municipality, no one else. That's why we think for the moment, we should just invite the current mayor and the minister. If we think we can go further, we'll consider it. However, I think we're already covering our bases in this file, which is delicate, because people don't want to pay twice.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Ms. Tesser Derksen, please go ahead.

[Kristina Tesser Derksen, Liberal, Milton East—Halton Hills South, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to my colleague, who is a gentleman.

We spoke about this matter, and I have been reading a lot about it. It certainly is very egregious. I appreciate his concern and the fact that he has brought it before this committee.

I want to propose some amendments to the motion, Mr. Chair. I have four. I can do those individually, if I may start with the first one.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

You can do that, unless you want to make them all one motion. Otherwise, yes, do them one at a time.

[Kristina Tesser Derksen, Liberal, Milton East—Halton Hills South, ON]

I'll do them one at a time.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Please send them to the clerk. If they're translated, that's even better.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Did Mr. Deltell move his motion?

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

Mr. Deltell, would you like to move your motion, please?

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC]

I thought I tabled the motion a few weeks ago.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Williamson]

I'm sorry. I understood that you were bringing the motion back to the floor for committee.

Is that correct?

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent—Akiawenhrahk, QC]

Yes. Thank you for setting the record straight for all of us.

The notice of motion is as follows:

That, in light of recent reporting that the Canada Revenue Agency is requiring the City of Laval to issue a payment of approximately $1 million to former mayor Gilles Vaillancourt in order for him to remit taxes on funds previously stolen from the municipality and later returned, the committee invite the Minister of National Revenue and officials from the Canada Revenue Agency and the mayor of Laval to appear before the committee for no fewer than two hours at the earliest opportunity to explain the agency’s decision-making process in this matter and to clarify the Liberal government’s position on requiring a municipality to transfer taxpayer dollars to a convicted former official for the purpose of settling a tax liability related to proceeds of crime.