Evidence of meeting #22 for Public Safety and National Security in the 39th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was arar.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Do we have any record of the number of Canadians who have dual nationality with any other country?
Director General, Consular Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs
There are approximations, projections, data, from StatsCanada. It's anywhere from 2 million to 2.5 million. We don't know, because people don't need to report that to us and we don't inquire.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
Thank you.
We'll have to shorten our round a little bit here to maybe four minutes each to get through this second round.
Mr. Alghabra.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good morning, gentlemen, and thank you for coming here.
Mr. Kessel, you touched upon the fact that Minister MacKay had registered Canada's objection with the United States. What was the outcome of that objection?
Legal Adviser, Department of Foreign Affairs
It was an understanding, a sharing of concern, and a commitment by Condoleezza Rice to bring this particular issue to the attention of the key departments in the U.S. administration to ensure that they would follow through on the Monterrey Protocol. This also flowed through from the Prime Minister's call to the President of the U.S.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
Are you satisfied with that? Do you think that's enough?
Legal Adviser, Department of Foreign Affairs
I'm very satisfied that the Prime Minister and the President agreed that this was a problem, and also satisfied that the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the Secretary of State agreed as well to make sure it resolves the problem.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
Just a minute ago you said that, given their response, the fact that they pledged to communicate with the Canadian government before any other incident is the best diplomatic language you can expect. I will humbly request that I think there's a better outcome, that the United States makes a pledge that if it's ever to deport a Canadian citizen, it's to deport him or her to Canada. Why aren't we asking that that's what happens--if the United States is going to deport a Canadian citizen, it sends them to Canada.
Legal Adviser, Department of Foreign Affairs
I believe the Monterrey Protocol, and certainly the message of the Prime Minister to President Bush, was exactly that. I think you do have that from the Government of Canada.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
But that's not the agreement right now, right? The agreement is that there should be communications before any--
Liberal
Legal Adviser, Department of Foreign Affairs
This would not stop the U.S. from proceeding against a Canadian or Canada proceeding against an American under our extradition legislation. Extradition, in fact, provides you all the protections you can have under our charter and under their constitution. Our concern was this removal concept. And what was particularly disappointing, going back to the previous question, was that Mr. Arar was using a Canadian passport. One thing I could tell Canadians of dual nationality is that if you're travelling abroad as a Canadian, use your Canadian passport, certainly if you're going to your country of origin, because it gives us a bit of a leg up, especially Robert Desjardins' gang, when we can actually say, this guy was travelling on his Canadian passport. That didn't help Mr. Arar in this case, and that's why we were particularly saddened in dealing with our American colleagues.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
But Mr. Kessel, I'm going to go back to my question. Is Canada going to demand from the United States and other countries around the world that if they're going to deport a citizen of Canada, that person should be deported to Canada?
Legal Adviser, Department of Foreign Affairs
That is our policy, and that's what we have asked other countries to do.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
But we're not getting guarantees from the United States that it will happen.
Legal Adviser, Department of Foreign Affairs
What we have got from the highest level in the government is the Monterrey Protocol, which says that they will not do anything until they speak to us, and that's the highest we can get at this point.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
That's what happened with Mr. Arar. They actually spoke to the foreign affairs department before they deported him to Syria, didn't they?
Legal Adviser, Department of Foreign Affairs
No, I believe what happened was that they deported him without consulting us. That's what the O'Connor commission found.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
What has the foreign affairs department done to Mr. Jaleel when he was detained in Uzbekistan before he was deported to China?
Legal Adviser, Department of Foreign Affairs
I have no answer on Mr. Jaleel, unless Mr. Desjardins--
Conservative
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
It's very relevant, Mr. Chair, because what the committee is looking into is that these things don't happen again. It's very relevant to the situation. So I'm not sure if we can say--
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz
He doesn't have an answer for you, though, sir.
Monsieur Ménard, for four minutes, please.