Evidence of meeting #43 for Public Safety and National Security in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was provincial.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
And the other thing is, I think when you talk about other ways with the judiciary, we have screens for children, we have other ways to protect the identity of people in the court, but they're still known to the individuals who are charged and they're known to the defence. It's just that they're screened from the public. Would that be a fair assessment?
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
In the general sense, when Mr. Cullen was talking about ways to protect witness identity within the judicial system; we do have some systems, but they're generally thought of to protect their identity to the public as opposed to protecting them from criminals who are charged.
Supt Gordon B. Schumacher
Are you talking, for instance, about closing a courtroom or a publication ban to prevent the picture of the individual from coming out in the newspaper?
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
Yes, but they don't protect their identity from the person who is charged, and that's why we offer witness protection.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
On the other part that Mr. Ménard talked about, the future criminality of somebody in the program, it's fair to say that the program is not there for any reason other than protection. We can't predict anyone's future criminal activity, including the people in the program; there is no provision in the program to do that.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
My other point was that when we're talking about protection, the names are typically disclosed to the defence in the disclosure documents from the Crown to the defence.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
When we talk about providing protection to witnesses, it's because they are known. It's not that we have any other way to protect them if there is a danger to their person.
Supt Gordon B. Schumacher
By the very nature of what they are doing, they are a witness, and as a witness they will have to appear in court to provide their testimony, so that's correct.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
One other thing, Staff Inspector. You mentioned that criminal activity, organized crime, is everywhere. I think we concur with that.
Very recently, in the city of London, the chief complained that you're pushing out crime. It is not you personally, and not your department, but crime is being pushed out of the city of Toronto into other communities, and now they're experiencing the same kinds of things you are--gun crime, but no witnesses coming forward.
If I understood Ms. Barnes, typically the witnesses who are looking for protection are people who are not necessarily in the organization but are part of the bigger community. That's why they're looking for protection. It's not because they happen to be citizens driving by who saw something. Is that a fair assessment?
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
That's what we're seeing with communities like the city of London. It's people who are in one bar or one night club, so they tend not to want to come forward, and that's similar to what happens in the city of Toronto. Is that fair enough?
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
If there was one thing the federal government could do, aside from providing money, in this program--
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
--what would it be? How could we improve the program from the federal perspective, other than with more money?
Supt Gordon B. Schumacher
Clearly, that is the first step, but in some way make it more accessible to smaller organizations. The reality is that the national program is not accessible to many organizations within this country. If we make it accessible, we can start using it.
Supt Gordon B. Schumacher
I'll try not to say the word, but money has to be part of that. There could also be an expansion or a tier two of the federal act that would allow more people to come into it, which would be of assistance.
