Evidence of meeting #46 for Public Safety and National Security in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Kennedy and Mr. McNabb, for being here.
I only want to deal with the witness protection program, because that's what we're studying and that's what the researchers are trying to get the information on.
In your presentation to us this morning, you have indicated two particular complaints that pre-date the legislation, so I don't think they really have a great deal of effect upon what we're looking at. Would that be a fair assessment?
Chair, Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
That is correct.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
Now, in that more recent time since the legislation, we've been told, I think, that there are upwards of 1,000 cases of people under the witness protection program, the majority of which are RCMP cases and some of which are for other bodies, provincial bodies. Dealing with the RCMP ones, which are the only ones you would have the complaints on—which would be, I think we were told, somewhere in the area of 600 a year since the legislation came in—is it a prevalent situation that you have complaints dealing with the witness protection program, or are they very rare?
Chair, Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Just to make two points, I think the split in the numbers is 700 and 300, but to clarify, we wouldn't only be dealing with the RCMP. You are right in terms of that being where we have everything, but there may be people from the other 300 who are introduced into the program, and to the extent that the RCMP would have anything to do with them, their conduct would be subject to a complaint.
I indicated that there were 27, I think, in the entire history, so clearly it's not prevalent.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
Yes, exactly. I think that's my point. But some of the 27 actually pre-date the legislation itself, going back to 1988, correct?
Chair, Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
That is correct.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
In addition, I think you've indicated that you've had nine reviews of the disposition by the RCMP—not you particularly, sir, but the organization. Would some of those nine also have pre-dated the legislation?
Chair, Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Yes.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
If I can ask you for a guesstimate—or maybe you have the correct answer—how many do we average per year?
Chair, Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
I think we've just had two since my appointment. I was appointed in October 2005, so if you do the math—
Chair, Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Yes.
Conservative
Chair, Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
No.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
Would it seem unreasonable to have a complaint when you consider the people we're dealing with? I'm not belittling them, but we're dealing with people who travel in criminal networks. From a police perspective, they are the people we need as witnesses. One per year is certainly not an exorbitant number of complaints.
Chair, Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
No. We do reviews on about 190 complaints per year out of the 2,000 that come through the door annually.
Chair, Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Yes.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
What would those complaints be about witness protection? Would they deal with misunderstandings or differences of opinion about money, by and large?
Chair, Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Yes.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
We're not talking about misconduct, particularly with the RCMP.
Chair, Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
If you're doing a statistical analysis, I think you're right. Clearly some have more serious allegations, and we have to look to see if the allegations are serious or not. It could be on whether or not you've improperly disclosed information about the individual. But the vast majority are what you would call commercial in nature—the understanding as to how much compensation a person will receive, and things like that.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
Would you agree it is a normal situation, even in other commercial ventures, for half of 1% of people to disagree with the retailer on price, or whatever the case may be?
Chair, Commission for Public Complaints Against the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Yes.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
My last comment is that although we need to be concerned, from the perspective of your office this is certainly not a major function of the office.