Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses.
The whole question of the use of force is, I imagine, a function of a variety of things, and it's not a science, but a bit of science and art blended together.
If you have, for example, four trained RCMP officers trying to subdue one person who's somewhat agitated—I've been to Depot and have seen the training RCMP officers go through, and I know I'm alluding to what happened in Vancouver, but I don't want to drag you into opinions on that—they should be able to subdue one individual who doesn't have a weapon, apart from, I gather, maybe a stapler or whatever the situation was, but not a lethal force weapon.
I'm led to conclude that there could be some things that come into play here: first, that the officer deployed the taser inappropriately, or second, that.... Mr. Groulx, you mentioned the question of bodily fluids. It's easy for us here in Parliament to talk about arresting people on the site, but some of these people are pretty unsavoury. I'm not referring to the chap in the Vancouver airport necessarily, but some involved with drugs and what have you can be pretty unsavoury. Police officers could rightly be concerned, it seems to me, that if they're going to physically subdue someone, they could be exposed to some bodily fluids. I think that could be a factor. Third, we've heard testimony that sometimes the use of the taser is actually the preferred method to subdue someone, because if they're in an agitated state they could go over the top, so you taser them and get them under control. We've heard some testimony along those lines.
If you look at Vancouver, you could also argue that the taser might have—I don't know, because we're still trying to figure out the science on this—pushed that person over the top physiologically and played some role in his death. I don't know; I'm just speculating.
My question is how, for one thing, in the use of force, do you factor in the number of constables present and the kind of target you're working with, the kind of client? Second, I wonder whether you'd comment on this question of bodily fluids. I think it's important, and we should speak openly and frankly about it. If it's not an issue, then let's get it off the table. Third is the question of actually using the taser as a preferred method to subdue someone.
Would anyone want to comment on those?