Evidence of meeting #28 for Public Safety and National Security in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cbsa.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:55 p.m.
C/Supt Mike Cabana
These are unlicensed premises.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Are there any other unlicensed premises off reserves in this area?
3:55 p.m.
C/Supt Mike Cabana
There may very well be, sir. This is based on--
3:55 p.m.
C/Supt Mike Cabana
This is based on the intelligence that we have.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
And tell me, what steps have you taken within the last six months to deal with the unlicensed manufacturers that you know of, which is 24 plus seven; that's 31.
3:55 p.m.
C/Supt Mike Cabana
Yes, sir. Actually, a number of steps have been taken, one of which.... And I realize you might find today's release of the tobacco strategy questionable. The timing of the release of this strategy was not really--
3:55 p.m.
C/Supt Mike Cabana
It was released today.
The strategy, though, is something we've been working at for quite some time. This strategy has been in development for well over a year. There has been extensive consultation. So this is more on the preventative side; this is sort of the way forward.
What we've been doing, aside from developing a strategy and doing the consultation, is basically analyzing the intelligence that we have and trying to identify the criminal organizations that are actually operating these facilities that are located within the different native communities. The vast majority--and I guess this will partly answer your original question--of contraband tobacco that is seized across Canada originates from central Canada and is manufactured on the U.S. side of the border in licensed and unlicensed manufacturing facilities.
We're enhancing the cooperation that already exists between the Canadian agencies, which are represented here at the table, to make sure the intelligence is fully shared and that the targeting is done at the appropriate level.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
I understand. That's what's coming across the border, and you're integrating your efforts, coordinating them.
What are you doing with respect to the 31 locations that are within Canada, within your own jurisdiction? Why have you not enforced the law?
4 p.m.
C/Supt Mike Cabana
Well, I would beg to differ on that point, sir. A number of projects have actually come to fruition over the past year, targeting some of those facilities.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
How many have you put out of business in the last two years?
4 p.m.
C/Supt Mike Cabana
Actual facilities?
4 p.m.
C/Supt Mike Cabana
I'm afraid I can't provide you with that answer.
4 p.m.
C/Supt Mike Cabana
The facilities themselves? I don't know, sir. I don't know.
But what I can tell you is that there have been quite a few individuals charged. There have been a total of 918 people charged in the course of the past two years. The individuals who have been charged--and you have to understand, we focus on targeting the highest level of the organizations--
4 p.m.
C/Supt Mike Cabana
So whether the manufacturers are still operating.... I know some of them are operating and I would suggest to you, sir, that probably the majority of them are operating.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
You have known this information about organized crime being part of all of this, either in terms of the smuggling of manufactured stuff elsewhere and otherwise. And no reflection on you individually, but I just want to tell you that as a former attorney general for British Columbia, I've been very proud of the RCMP. They serve much of British Columbia. But I am actually flabbergasted with the lack of action on this file that all of the law enforcement agencies--none excluded--have exhibited. I don't know what else to say.
4 p.m.
C/Supt Mike Cabana
In response to your comment, sir, I would suggest to this honourable committee that we have to recognize that the agencies that are sitting at the table here, over the past many years, have been focused on trying to eradicate the problem. If you look at the seizure levels over the past several years, seizures are increasing exponentially. It's clear the problem is not getting resolved.
This is why the document you have in front of you, which was distributed.... That's why we now recognize that enforcement alone is not the solution to the contraband tobacco problem.
4 p.m.
C/Supt Mike Cabana
It's a combination, sir, of different initiatives. It's education within the communities and it's also enforcement and regulation of the industry.
4 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Roy Cullen
Thank you very much, Mr. Dosanjh.
Madam Thaï Thi Lac, s'il vous plaît.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Good afternoon. I would like to thank the witnesses for being here today to talk about the smuggling that is happening in Quebec and across Canada.
Most of my questions are for Mr. Cabana. You said that over 900 people have been prosecuted. When prosecuting people for tobacco smuggling, the Crown prosecutor can choose to proceed by summary conviction or indictment. Do you have any statistics on the number of people who were charged on summary conviction, and those who were indicted?
You said that you target the upper levels of organizations. We know that no business can operate without clients or buyers. I agree that you do need to dismantle the upper levels of these organizations. But are any consumers ever brought before the courts? Are there any penalties that dissuade consumers from buying illegal tobacco products?