Evidence of meeting #38 for Public Safety and National Security in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was know.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
Director, Security Operations, Privy Council Office
It didn't happen. My role is to manage the background check policy in place, and that's what I've done in this regard.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Roy Cullen Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
So then you and Madam Bloodworth were working on the assumption that, given the clean background check, these stories, these photographs were fictitious or not believable? I'm just talking about the reasonable person. I read the those newspaper articles as well, I saw the photographs, and I don't believe everything I see in the newspapers, but if I saw those, I think, as a national security adviser, a director of security operations, it would have twigged something that said there might be something of concern here. That didn't happen, is that right?
5:10 p.m.
National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
I think we've answered that, Mr. Cullen. All that presumes that there's something illegal going on and something we haven't agreed to. I think we have answered.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Roy Cullen Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
No, I understand that. I understand there's a process and you did the updated background checks in April 2008. And certainly I know you can't answer for the PMO--and we'll have a chance, hopefully, to do that--but someone in the PMO who's responsible for making sure the Prime Minister doesn't get into trouble because there's a minister who has some relationships that are a cause for concern must have flagged this. I just find it impossible to believe that no one flagged it. I find it surprising, frankly, that the PCO didn't flag it at some point in time to someone in the PMO. To raise it with the minister would be a bit delicate, I agree.
So that never happened. With the newspaper reports and all the photographs of all these organized criminals with Ms. Couillard, you concluded that there's not any evidence to suggest that has any substance to it, and therefore we're not concerned?
5:10 p.m.
National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
Our concern is always with cabinet ministers, as it always has been. I was not making any judgments on anyone else, including someone who might be talked about in the newspaper.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Roy Cullen Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
I guess I'm coming to the point that hopefully out of this review someone is going to be looking at spouses and significant companions.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Roy Cullen Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
Can I ask one quick question? I'm hoping that the Department of Foreign Affairs is not limiting their review to the documents that were left in Madame Couillard's apartment, because we don't know how many other documents may have been left there over time. Their review is not limited, hopefully, just to that set of documents. Is it?
5:15 p.m.
National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
No, that's not the only thing we have done. We did call for cabinet documents to be returned from Mr. Bernier's office, which is the normal thing when a minister leaves cabinet. And they will review all of the process for dealing with secret documents. I agree with you. I would hope that if there are other documents missing, that would become part of the review as well.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Bonnie Brown Liberal Oakville, ON
Ms. Bloodworth and Mr. Tardif, despite a general concern in the media, and certainly in the opposition, that maybe something was awry, all we've heard so far from you is that essentially after conducting the background checks it seems as if your work was over.
What is it that you do advise the Prime Minister about from a security perspective? Maybe you could give us a couple of topics that you're working on right now, because a viewer who's watching this program on television must wonder what the national security adviser and her staff do other than background checks. Surely there are other security issues. Are they of a geopolitical nature? Are they of a personal safety nature? What are they about?
5:15 p.m.
National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
First of all, background checks are a very small part of my particular day--any day.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
5:15 p.m.
National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
I tried to not take too much of the committee's time, but the beginning of my opening statements say there are a large number of security issues confronting this country. I gave a couple of examples of security preparations for the G8 and for the 2010 Olympics. Those are certainly things that I would be involved in coordinating with other government departments.
There are issues with regard to national security on terrorism. There's an advisory committee on national security meeting this week that I will be involved in.
I'm not trying to suggest, and that was not the intent of my remarks, that I spend lots of time on background checks. I was just trying to explain what we do with regard to background checks and the difference between them and security clearances, which is quite significant.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
Thank you.
On page 2 of the document you tabled with the Committee, you discuss background checks and state the following:
A background check is conducted on prospective Cabinet appointees in order to ensure that there is no criminal, security or other concerns which could affect their suitability for public office.
You say “ou autre“,
in English, “or other concerns which could affect their suitability for public office”.
Would allegations that a spouse of a minister had possible close links to organized crime, if it came to your attention either during the actual background check or subsequent to the background check, be a concern that you would investigate or have checked into in order to determine whether that would affect their suitability for public office?
5:15 p.m.
National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
“Or other concerns”, in this particular case, refers to the fact that we also do a tax compliance check and a bankruptcy check.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
So in that case, your answer is no. Any allegation that came to your attention, by whatever means, that the spouse of a minister had close links and ties to organized crime is not a concern that would possibly call into question the suitability of that minister for public office and require a further check?
5:20 p.m.
National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
I was just explaining to you what “other concerns” means.
When it comes to crime and security, which are two inputs to cabinet-making, prime ministers consider, as those of you who have been cabinet ministers will know, many, many other factors besides what comes from the background check. So there are many things that affect whether a Prime Minister decides to make someone a cabinet minister. What I have tried to do is explain to you the process with regard to background checks as one input into that process.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
And my question remains: if an allegation that a spouse of a minister had close links and ties to organized crime came to the attention of Monsieur Tardif as director of security operations, or to you or to any other member of Privy Council, would that lead you or Monsieur Tardif to ask for a verification of those allegations?
5:20 p.m.
National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister and Associate Secretary to the Cabinet, Privy Council Office
Organized crime is obviously a concern in this country, as it is in many western countries. I would expect that if there was a significant concern about a minister's connection with organized crime, that would come out of a criminal or security check.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC
Given that you've told us that at no time have the RCMP informed you that they have any concerns regarding Mr. Bernier's relationship with Madame Couillard, I have to suppose, then, that either the RCMP is keeping information from you or the RCMP has not conducted an investigation into that situation, or it is at this time conducting such an investigation but has not come to any conclusion.
