Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
My name is Geoffrey O'Brian. I'm a member of CSIS. I am, by training, a lawyer, but I have been a manager within the service since it started.
I recognize that my appearance here today follows on that of two CSIS directors, both our current one and our former one, who appeared before the forerunner of this committee in October 2006, which I think was just about a month after the O'Connor commission's first report, its factual report with its 23 recommendations, was made public. More recently, just three weeks ago the executive director of SIRC, the Security Intelligence Review Committee, appeared before you.
Having reviewed their testimony and the questions that were asked there, I frankly didn't think it would be useful simply to repeat what they said. Instead, if you will permit me, I'd like to use this opportunity just to make one sort of general point. That is, as complex as they are, the issues surrounding both the O'Connor and Iacobucci inquiries—information-sharing, human rights, accountability—are not new for CSIS. Indeed, what we refer to as the granddaddy of all inquiries, the McDonald commission, which took place in the late 1970s and reported in the early 1980s, whose recommendations of course led to the creation of CSIS, looked at these issues in their August 1981 report.
Among their comments on the subject is the following, and here I'm quoting: “Liaison with foreign agencies raises a number of important policy concerns”, one of which “relates to the entering into agreements which may conflict with Canada's foreign policies.”
Another issue involves the need for sufficient control over information leaving this country to ensure that the rights of Canadians are adequately protected. It's in part because of the importance and complexity surrounding international information-sharing that unusual safeguards were built into the CSIS act in 1984. And I think members may know that before CSIS can enter into an arrangement with a foreign agency, under section 17 of our act we have to obtain the approval of our minister, the Minister of Public Safety, and he has to consult with his or her colleague, the Minister of Foreign Affairs. So before we can enter into an arrangement, there is an opportunity, indeed a requirement, to consider the foreign policy and human rights implications of such an arrangement and of course direct ministerial accountability, in the sense that our minister approves each proposal.
SIRC also reviews these arrangements, looking in detail at particular arrangements or particular issues under those arrangements. I think I'm right in saying that every one of SIRC's annual reports in the last nearly 25 years has examined and commented on some aspect of these issues.
For example, in their most recent report, tabled on January 27 in the House this year, SIRC noted that we had some 276 arrangements with agencies in 147 countries.
In particular, during the past year SIRC examined those foreign arrangements where there had been restrictions imposed “because of concerns relating to a country's or agency's human rights record, reliability or ability to protect information provided by the Service”. SIRC found that we had stuck to our self-imposed restrictions, and here I quote:
The Service performed well in terms of balancing the need to collect vital security intelligence information, while remaining aware of the potential problems of dealing with a restricted agency.
The same sentiment was echoed by Mr. Justice O'Connor in 2006, when he wrote in his report that “decisions about how to interact with a country with a poor human rights record can be very difficult and do not lend themselves to simple or prescriptive rules.”
These decisions “do not lend themselves”, in Mr. Justice O'Connor's words, “to simple or prescriptive rules”. In practice, what that means, I think, for CSIS is that we have had nearly 25 years of experience working under ongoing review and accountability mechanisms. It is ingrained in our culture. While we don't always agree with SIRC, or always enjoy the SIRC process, our director has noted that the system of review set up under the CSIS Act has, over time, made us a better service.
I used the phrase "over time" on purpose, because it seems to me that virtually everyone who's thought about these issues has concluded there are no simple, easy, and once-and-for-all answers. To me, that's part of the genius of the CSIS Act process, that's it's just that, an ongoing process capable of adjusting to changed and changing operational, legal, and political circumstances.
When she appeared before this committee earlier this month, the executive director of SIRC, Susan Pollak, alluded to this. She stated that her experience, or the experience of SIRC, is that
often our recommendations tend to end up being published after steps have already begun to address the issues that have been uncovered through...[our] reviews.... In other words...through the process of review, issues have become apparent on both sides and the service has already started to implement steps that will address the recommendation. By the time the recommendation is done, they've already partially or completely taken up what we've suggested they do.
Are these difficult issues? Yes. The very existence of these major commissions of inquiry, the O'Connor, Iacobucci, and, I might add, the Air India commissions of inquiry, I think are a testament to that. But we have reacted, and I think will react, to these inquiries, frankly, in the same way we regularly react to the ongoing reviews of our activities by SIRC. As well, I might add that the inspector general of CSIS reports to our deputy minister. That is, we absorb the lessons and insights they offer on how we can improve our policies and practices, including those related to information sharing with foreign states with poor human rights records.
In short, we have become accustomed to such ongoing review, and it results for us in an ongoing process of adjustment and refinement.
In looking at the comments, findings and recommendations of the O'Connor and Iacobucci commissions, I hope that my opening remarks will have provided some added context.
Thank you for inviting all of us here today. I look forward to your questions with an anxious dose of equal parts anticipation and interest.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.