Evidence of meeting #14 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was agencies.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Hypothetically speaking and practically speaking, I don't engage in hypothetical answers to hypothetical questions.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
I think that's extremely wise.
Mr. Rigby, I wonder if we could talk about border security, the changes that have occurred, and its budget issues. In particular, I would like to know about an increase in funding for border security, with the stand-alone positions, and how this is affecting your organization.
President, Canada Border Services Agency
We received funds a couple of budgets ago to implement both the arming initiatives and what is generally referred to as the doubling-up initiative. This was to ensure that we would not have any ports of entry with an officer working alone. I can report that both of those initiatives are on schedule, on budget. We're approximately halfway through the implementation of the doubling-up initiative, and we expect to see it completed in the next couple of years.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
As a result of this, are you seeing fewer instances of border guards, CBSA officials, leaving their posts because of threats made to them?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
Both of these initiatives were designed, in part, to respond to concerns that our officers were working under difficult, sometimes dangerous, conditions. My sense of it is that our officers feel that these two initiatives have gone some way towards responding to these concerns.
Conservative
Dave MacKenzie Conservative Oxford, ON
Commissioner Sweeney, I wonder if you could give us a sense of what's occurring in depot, with the recruits now being paid for their time at depot. Is this having an effect on recruitment?
Senior Deputy Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
It's very early to associate any change to the cadet allowance with our recruiting initiative. But according to the last update I had with respect to the troops we had programmed into the academy, all of the seats have been filled, which is somewhat unusual for us. We have had some challenges on this head. Whether it's attributable to cadet allowance, I can't yet say. But our depot is going at an incredible pace. This year we're forecasting that 1,824 cadets will go through our academy. By contrast, when I joined the RCMP in 1974, and we were in a growth period at the time, we were putting through less than 1,000, so it's almost doubled. It's unprecedented in our history.
Conservative
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
My question is for Mr. Judd. You may or may not be the most overseen agency in the government, but on March 31, the Auditor General said that at the time of her audit, “security and intelligence agencies were still not undergoing a level of independent review proportionate to their intrusion into people's lives”.
Would your agency welcome more oversight?
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
I'm not sure I would agree with the comment. In order to authorize any intrusive activity our agency might need to direct against Canadian citizens or residents of Canada, we must first to go to Federal Court to get a warrant. The warrant itself is reviewed by independent counsel, by justice department counsel, by our own operations people, and by the minister, before we proceed to court. The execution of the warrant powers, whether it relates to communications interception or anything else, is subsequently subject to review by the Security and Intelligence Review Committee and the Inspector General. In the light of this, I'm not sure that additional external review—
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
What I think Justice O'Connor was pointing out as well is that perhaps CSIS is under review, but the linkages--the conveyance of information between the agencies and among the agencies, and among intelligence activities happening in other places--are not appropriately reviewed. There are those cracks in between agencies and in between operations in the 20-odd agencies that are operating. Do you agree that that's a lack?
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
I think the point you make about a broader, if you will, inter-agency review mechanism is one that certainly Mr. Justice O'Connor has recommended. And as the minister indicated earlier, the government has been doing work on that. He is awaiting the results of the Major inquiry.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Well, there will be, I presume.
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
I wanted to ask both of you this. We had representatives from CSIS and the RCMP in earlier this week on this study. Both of them declined the opportunity to use parliamentary privilege to apologize.
Former Commissioner Zaccardelli apologized for Mr. Arar before the government did. Would you be willing to offer apologies on behalf of your agencies for Mr. Almalki, Mr. Elmaati, and Mr. Nureddin?
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
If I could, sir, I would point out that one of the cardinal principles of public service is that one does not contradict the minister before a parliamentary committee. The minister has already spoken to the issue.
Liberal
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
As a general matter of policy in our service, we do not make public comments on issues that are in litigation.
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
Mr. O'Brian suggested on Tuesday that government lawyers had, indeed, indicated that they should not be offering any apologies while litigation continues. I'm just wondering whether the directive came from government lawyers or from the minister.
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
No, I think the issue is a broader policy issue for us, sir. It is highly inappropriate for us to comment on a matter that is in litigation, be it civil or criminal, while the litigation is still—
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
So Mr. Arar was an exception--the apology to Mr. Arar, which happened while litigation was ongoing?
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Which apology are you talking...?
Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
I believe the Prime Minister's apology took place after the settlement of the litigation. I'm not sure. I'm going on my memory.
