Public Safety Committee on June 11th, 2009

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Thank you.

I am convinced that it is impossible to get the best results possible when you are managing the failures of others and the toughest cases.

In all honesty, we would like to be able to help you and provide you with the resources you need. One of the priorities you mentioned is the retention of human resources. You just gave us an example showing where you have lost them.

Do you have a plan to recruit and retain the best human resources? How much time do you think it will take to achieve the desired level of competency in the correctional system?

[Don Head]

I think our human resource renewal agenda is positioning us well in terms of going out and seeking the right people, the best people, to work in our environment. There is absolutely no question in my mind about the women and men who work in the Correctional Service of Canada. I actually feel extremely proud to be working in the organization with them. They do an excellent job, a competent job.

Having said that, there's a huge chunk of the organization's people who are reaching that age where they're eligible to take their retirement. And because there has not been a focus over the last 10 years in terms of making sure we were staying ahead of that curve or that wave, we now find ourselves in a situation where we're significantly competing with other agencies to get the people we do get.

We have launched a significant recruitment campaign, particularly in the area of health care professionals. We've launched a series of new initiatives around learning and development. We're also launching some new initiatives around executive leadership development opportunities. We're also, in terms of the health care professional group, looking at how we can give them—similar to the comment that was raised earlier—some more professional development opportunities.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

You do not appear to have a plan to recruit and retain the best people, nor do you have a plan for obtaining the staff that you will need in the foreseeable future.

Let us move on to another subject. We were told that only 2% of your budget is earmarked for inmate programs. Do you think that this amount is adequate, given the objectives and the treatments you mentioned? Moreover, these are objectives that I share with my government colleague.

[Don Head]

If the question is whether I need more money for programming, I—

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Do you think that 2% of the budget is adequate?

[Don Head]

Two per cent allows us to produce the kinds of results we're producing now. It doesn't allow us to meet all our needs; however, it needs to be recognized that—

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

That means no.

[Don Head]

It's partly no. Yes, it's partly no, but I just want to clarify as well that the 2% refers specifically to just correctional programming.

We actually have additional money. When we talk about programs, we not only talk about our correctional programs, which is that 2% to 2.7%, but we also have money for education, and we also have money for employment, employment opportunities through CORCAN. So we actually spend around $132 million in programs in all areas, not just in the correctional program area.

But in the criminogenic program area, yes, it's around 2%. Is that enough? The answer is no.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Currently, there is a section in Quebec law that provides for a prisoner to earn parole before the end of his sentence by respecting the staff and other prisoners, but also by participating in programs and following the prison's rules. They can thus earn two days of freedom for one.

Rather than granting parole after one third of a sentence, we could set up a program in which inmates could continually be earning something. Would such a program be too complex to manage?

[Don Head]

We had that system previously, when I first started. It's the earned remission system. We had that when I first started in corrections in 1978. Administratively it was a very burdensome system, as most of the provinces find now, because there is a level of subjectivity to that and it does play itself out if there are challenges. You find there are more offenders who actually just receive it outright as opposed to seeing it reduced.

There is no question that there is a need for a better system, one that has an incentive-based approach and motivates offenders to participate in programs. The earned remission system did not work for us back in the 1970s and early 1980s.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

I would like to get one more piece of information, which could be very useful to the people listening to us.

How much does the federal correctional system cost, per prisoner?

[Don Head]

The cost of maintaining an offender in an institution is about $101,000 a year. The cost to maintain an offender in the community is about $25,000 a year. On average, it's $81,000 a year to maintain an offender.

[Serge Ménard, Bloc, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

How much does it cost for a rehabilitation program like the one at Portage?

[Don Head]

I have no idea.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

I've been too lenient, and that means Mr. Richards has about two minutes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair, for that two minutes. I'll do what I can in two minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

I'll give you three.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Thank you for being here.

The transformation agenda was touched on in your report. I think it's a great report, and I would encourage anyone on the committee who hasn't read it to read through it, because there are some great keys to the changes that need to happen in our correctional system in that report.

You mentioned the five key areas in your opening remarks. There are three that I think directly apply to the topic of our study on mental health and addictions. Primarily, the goal in dealing with mental health and addictions is to try to give the offenders the tools they need to succeed in society. So I think these three points—offender accountability, offender employment and employability, and the elimination of drugs in institutions—strongly apply to this. Particularly, when we talk about the elimination of drugs in institutions, despite the Liberals' denial of the reality of this situation, the first step in ending drug use is eliminating access to the drugs. If I get a chance, I'll go back to that.

On what Mr. MacKenzie was discussing with you, I certainly appreciate the fact that there is a recognition that we need to find a way to help them understand how to help themselves as well. We could provide all the programs, options, and treatment we can—and it's important that we do so—but we have to find a way to ensure that the offenders or inmates are taking advantage of that. I appreciate that it's being considered, you understand and recognize it, and you're dealing with that.

You mentioned that there are basically three reasons for discharge from the treatment centres you have set up for mental health. One is that the clinical team has assessed that discharge is appropriate and treatment is complete. Another one is that the offender has decided they don't want treatment anymore—they've refused it and decided they're going to pull themselves out of it, which is what we talked about that needs to change. The other one is that they've reached their release date.

Can you give me some percentages on the three different reasons for discharge from the treatment? I'd like to get an idea of the statistics.

[Don Head]

I'll have to get back to you. We can provide that to the committee, but I don't have those numbers available today.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

I'd appreciate it if you could provide that. I think that would give us a good sense as to what the success of the treatment is and how big an issue it is when offenders choose to pull themselves out of the treatment. The accountability, as you mentioned, has to be there. They have to understand the need to help themselves as well.

There's one last thing I wanted to touch on: our strategy in terms of dealing with drugs in the prisons. There are a lot of good things that were recommended in the transformation agenda and a lot of good things that the Conservative government has put in place to help create a zero tolerance situation for drugs in prisons. I'm wondering if you could give me some examples and statistics of the success that has been created by some of those measures our government has put in place to deal with drugs in prisons.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

There is time for a brief response, if possible.

[Don Head]

What I will do, Mr. Chair, is provide the committee with a listing, for example, of the drug seizures that have occurred since we put in some of these measures, an indication around our urinalysis rates. We'll provide these statistics to the committee so it can see some of the changes that have occurred since we put in these new measures.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

So the entire committee will get a written response to those questions.

I had one more request for a written response.

Mr. Kania, for a few seconds.

[Andrew Kania, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Very briefly, I'd like a written response, in terms of mandatory minimums, to what the increase is in the population--what is anticipated--and the anticipated cost for that and how you're planning to handle it based on the anticipated additional number of inmates.

In terms of drug trafficking, briefly as well, perhaps you could, in writing, provide us with any other suggestions or requests as to how we might be of assistance in terms of what you think needs to be done, in addition to what's being done, to stop the flow of drugs going into prisons.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Thank you very much.

Do you have a point of order? What is it?