Canada's property crime rate and the American property crime rate are about the same and always have been. The violent crime rate in the United States, especially involving guns, is about three times the rate in Canada. Through the 30 years I was talking about, trends in crime between Canada and the United States were identical—trends, not levels. We seem to have achieved without incarceration exactly the same benefits as the Americans think they achieved through massive incarceration. In that respect, I think Canada looks pretty smart comparatively. We got the same benefit without relying on incarceration.
In states that now spend more on their prisons than—