I'm sure the committee has had debates about the value of the government's bills and their approach. I'm not here to speak about that. There's evidence that suggests it's the wrong way, and there are other people who think it prevents crime. That's a debate you'll have in Parliament.
It should not be considered as a way to meet the needs of victims. I spent the entire day today with victims groups and with victim service providers yesterday, and that didn't come up at all as a way to meet the real needs. Every day we hear from victims, asking how we get those issues solved. That's just not part of the equation in most cases.