Yes, well, hundreds. I didn't write it down. He said that he had whittled that list down to 70 to 75 names. Anyway, Mr. Comartin knows that when a person makes notes, they usually are correct, because for 30 years I have made them, and defence counsel usually tried to.... But anyway, be won't get into that.
What normally occurs, and what occurred in this particular case, is that because of the importance of this private member's bill.... And nothing, save salacious comments about individuals and the substantive issues of the economy and these other things, has gripped this nation like firearms violence and public safety issues. Of course, we know that throughout the years there has been, and continues to be, a very fulsome discussion whether or not the long-gun registry fits the needs of Canadians vis-à-vis reducing firearm violence in this country. That's the reason my colleague, Ms. Hoeppner, introduced this private member's bill. She felt strongly enough that we needed to have that discussion here in the House of Commons.
We put forward a plethora of names, I would say, as did the other four parties. We put those names forward for discussion, as is the norm. But what happens when you want to hijack the proceedings, when you no longer want to be fair, when you no longer want to go forward with normal practice, is that you form a coalition—just as was formed before, and continues to be—and you reach an agreement to hijack the government's list and move a motion that you will decide who are going to be the witnesses for the other side, because, hey, after all, they did supply those names. Well, we supplied the names so that we'd have a list we could sit down with to get that balance that we normally do at committee.
I suppose Canadians have to decide whether this is fair. Is this fair? What I want to impress upon Canadians--because I believe it's useless to try to persuade the other side, since their minds are made up--is that it's inappropriate, because we all discuss with each other while one side or the other is speaking to the chair or to the issues. We sometimes consult with each other.
I won't mention the fact that there is some disinterest with what's going on here.
I did listen to Mr. Comartin, and I think he would find it very difficult to argue against what I've just said. It is a fact that we submit numerous names and then, during the discussion, we come to an appropriate balance of for and against, or of those who have a different view that is maybe not totally against. We have that discussion and we choose names. It's very rare that one side decides the priority for the other side.
He talks about opinion polls. In the interest of a little levity, I can recall a past Conservative Prime Minister saying, “You know what dogs do to poles.” The real poll, the only poll that really counts, is the poll at election time. Yes, at election time Canadians decided to send Conservatives to government with about 10 or so fewer people than the opposition. When the opposition--or, for that matter, anyone in the House of Commons--says, “Canadians want...”, what they're saying is, “The people who voted for me want....” I think the people with the most substance behind what Canadians want are the people most Canadians voted for. When it comes to opinion polls, we have to be very careful, because a poll can be slanted either way, depending on the question and the demographic you're going after.
Mr. Wrzesnewskyj says we are governed in this place by rules. Well, he was correct, but we're also governed in this place by tradition and by practice. The tradition and the practice are that, once again in the interests of fairness, we have certain discussions in camera, because, to an extent, we can drop that party stance and become a little more relaxed in our discussions when it comes to who we're going to invite before the committee to best portray something or to give us evidence that will allow the analysts to help us.
I would have to say, quite frankly, that we wouldn't be able to function without the analysts. In terms of who's more important, they would say that we MPs are and that they're not, but the truth is that we're a team, and they are often asked to suggest names to us. Sometimes, and maybe in this case, we need to revisit that, but we do it, once again, in camera. We're not in camera now, so I can talk in generalities only because I can't speak specifically about what we discussed in camera.
I would like to go back to Mr. Wrzesnewskyj and say we should do what we normally do. Let's do what is the norm. Let's do what is the tradition. Let's show Canadians that we can cooperate. All you need to show is some goodwill. All you need to say is, “Look, Conservatives, we put forward this motion for you folks to have six witnesses, but we're big people; we'll allow you to choose the six names that you want to put forward.”
Canadians looking at this would ask what would be fair. Isn't it fair that the Conservatives would be able to prioritize part of the 70-some names that they put forward? Wouldn't it be fair that they could put six of those names forward without having the other side decide? I would say that they would expect from the Conservatives that we would say to the NDP, to the Bloc Québécois, and to the Liberals that you should decide among yourselves. You decide, and we won't object to whatever names you want to put forward. We won't object to your fair share.
Once again I go back to fairness, tradition, and what's seen as right. It's just plainly the right thing to do. You can have all the fancy lawyers' words; I'll leave all the fancy lawyers' words to my friend, Mr. Rathgeber, because he is a lawyer and he's very articulate, as is Mr. Kania. He knows lots of good lawyers' words that a poor old policeman like me doesn't understand, but what I do understand is fairness.
Now, if all that's important here is winning--if all that's important here is to get our motion passed and to shove this motion up the noses of the Conservatives or some other body or place--they may very well win, but in the end, Mr. Chair, will Canadians feel this is fair, especially those Canadians who are conversant with how this place operates and conversant with the way committees operate? No, Mr. Chair, they will not find this fair.
I think we need to have a breather. I think we need to go back and ask what the harm is in this committee maintaining the norm of fair play, justice, and goodwill. If that happens as this committee....
I've been on the public safety committee now going on five years, and generally speaking, when we have discussions as MPs around this place, this is one of the committees that is looked to as one of the best operating committees. By that we mean there isn't the kind of wrangling and hoo-ha that goes on in other committees. Whether it was in camera or whether we were discussing very important legislation such as the Anti-terrorism Act, I was very proud to belong to that committee, because we did work as a team. We were able to sit down and go through some of the most important things.
Ms. Mourani likes to giggle and laugh through the whole thing. I can remember one meeting at which she actually admonished me because I dared to talk while she was talking, but I guess she can't hear me because she's too busy.
Anyway, Mr. Chair, I think it's very important that we begin to think along the lines of fairness. If it's all about winning at any cost and getting the motion passed to fix those Conservatives, then in the end they will win, but I suggest to you, Mr. Chair, that in the end they may very well lose. There's an old saying that you may win the battle, but you end up losing the war, and the war will be fought not in this place but at the polls. Sometimes, win or lose, you lose. You may, as I say, win this battle, but I think in the end you're going to lose the war.
With that, Mr. Chair, I shall relinquish my time for the time being.