Public Safety Committee on April 28th, 2010

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I think that has been fairly common practice before the justice and public safety committees over the years.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

I wonder about the logistics of this. I put this to the committee. I don't think we have room for more than two, and if everybody brings two there is no way we can physically accommodate them at this committee, because you would have 10 to 12 people sitting there at every meeting.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

We have room for them to sit in the back. If they say they want to have a support group with them, that's fine, but they can only have a maximum of two at the table.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Even if we get two at the table, that's still 10 to 12 sitting there at every meeting.

Mr. Kania.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I rest my case. We don't have enough time.

[Andrew Kania, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

I was going to speak about practical arrangements, because we can't have ten people coming from one group. Since I put my name on the list I heard about the two persons per group. I think that's a reasonable accommodation. Let's work with something like that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Ms. Mourani.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Listen, Mr. Kania took the words right out of my mouth. I think one or two witnesses are fine, especially since Mr. Comartin is right about the victims groups. We may be interested in hearing from two witnesses. What matters is that each group will have 10 minutes. If one group has two representatives, the 10-minute speaking time will be split in two. Otherwise, we will not have time to ask questions.

However, if we take the RCMP, for example, if the senior deputy commissioner came with his chief superintendent, perhaps the senior deputy commissioner would speak for 10 minutes, but perhaps Mr. Cheliak would be able to provide more specific answers to our questions. So when it comes time for questions, it would be preferable if the person best suited to respond do so Therefore, I agree with the two-person maximum.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Mr. Holland, please.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

To focus the debate and hopefully end it, I propose an amendment that there be a maximum of two witnesses per organization witness within that ten-minute timeframe.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Okay. You heard the amendment.

We need a new list now because we are now on an amendment. I had Mr. Wrzesnewskyj next, but we are now dealing with an amendment.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I was on the previous list because I was hoping to move an amendment. I think everyone would concur with it. It helps with the wording of the motion to embrace this concept.

In the second line we would eliminate the word “witnesses”, so it would say “submit to the clerk a list of organizations, not exceeding a ratio of three organizations per committee member, with two witnesses from each organization”.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

On a point of order, the only challenge is that right now we have the amendment I moved on the floor. Frankly, I think it's clearer to keep it as it is.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Yes. With all due respect, I don't think we'd get a consensus on that.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

That's exactly what you said--

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

I'm not changing the definition. I want to be careful. I don't want to see us changing the definition of “witness” to “organization”, because I think that could prove problematic for both sides.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Yes. I don't see support for the redefinition.

Okay. Mr. McColeman.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

I just want to be completely clear, and I think this last intervention did that. But I just want to be sure.... Speaking to this amendment, then, I believe what you said--and I just want you to clarify--is that one witness can have two representatives. Correct?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Inside ten minutes.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

Inside ten minutes. But it counts as one witness and they can have two representatives here?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Yes. But to be clear, they'd be from the same organization. So you couldn't use it as a gateway to bring in another organization as an extra witness to split it five and five.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

Fine. I just want to be very clear that this is what your amendment entails.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Good. I think I'm getting the drift here as well--slowly.

Does anybody else have a comment? Then I'm going to reflect what I think you hear after we pass this motion. Pardon me, the amendment.

[An hon. member]

What's the amendment?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

There would be a maximum of two people inside a maximum of ten minutes, or one witness could be divided into two maximum.