If it's impossible in many circumstances to draw that line--and let me specifically take the cases of Mr. Arar, Mr. Nureddin, Mr. Almalki, and Mr. El Maati.... These are Canadian citizens, where both Justice O'Connor, in one case, and Justice Iacobucci, in the other, said that Canada was complicit in their detention and torture specifically because they found we didn't watch those lines.
If you're telling me it's impossible to know in many cases whether or not we're sharing information with groups or with governments that exchange any information on torture, when it's impossible to know whether or not what you're getting is extracted from torture, when in the opinion of reports you've been told--or probably a Google search would tell you--there's a good chance torture is going on, to get that information, in your opinion, is it appropriate to be violating that ministerial directive? Or do you feel the ministerial directive, which has a sort of escape clause written by the minister saying “not knowingly relying upon information”...in your opinion does “not knowingly relying on information” include when it's impossible to know? Is it okay to use information obtained by torture in those circumstances?