Public Safety Committee on May 25th, 2010

[Wendy Cukier]

It was the comment with respect to the firearm use at Dawson College. If the translation was correct, I believe the senator stated that it was an unrestricted hunting rifle. In fact it was a restricted firearm that probably should have been a prohibited firearm.

Many of you have probably already heard about the push from the police to update the list of prohibited weapons, because there are many firearms currently being sold as unrestricted and restricted weapons that frankly should never have been imported to Canada, and that would be one of them.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

As an example, we had the exchange this last couple of weeks over this gun from China that could be easily converted. Is that one of the examples of a weapon that should have been on a different list?

[Wendy Cukier]

We have argued for a number of years that the Ruger Mini-14 should have been moved to restricted category—that was the gun used at Polytechnique—because of certain characteristics. There are also firearms that are sold as restricted weapons, like the AR-15, that should be prohibited. Recently we've seen a lot of press around sniper rifles, for example, and the fact that they're being sold as non-restricted firearms. Many would argue that the 50-calibres in particular should be prohibited.

So there are some issues around the classifications, and hence the concern about when these non-restricted weapons are no longer tracked. And remember, this bill not only eliminates the need to register the firearms, it also has no provision for recording the sale of firearms in the stores, a provision that has been in place since 1977, which at least allowed police a starting point. That is absent from this. There will be no information about who has these guns, and as a result, if they end up involved in crime or in the wrong hands, there's no way to hold people accountable.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

We'll be in the position fairly soon to sign on to protocols, both with the UN and with the Organization of American States, which will require us to publish each year all of the handguns and individual weapons. I'm talking about non-military weapons, although some of these, I suppose, could fall into those categories too. If this bill goes through and the long-gun registry is done away with, will we have any way of complying with those two protocols?

[Wendy Cukier]

The importance of registration in fulfilling our international obligations is the subject of some discussion. I know that many people around here received a joint letter that was signed by the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, police associations, and police boards, arguing against the government's decisions around marking and tracing. A number of experts have put forward the position that, if this law passes, Canada would no longer be able to meet its international obligations under the marking and tracing regime and under the 2001 Programme of Action. In fact, special rapporteurs on violence against women, as well as human rights and small arms, have suggested that countries that fail to adequately regulate firearms to protect civilians and particularly women from firearm violence are failing their obligations under international human rights law.

It's not my area of expertise, but certainly there are indications that there are problems if this law passes.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I have one more question, Ms. Cukier, with regard to the arguments we've heard from Mr. Gaudet, Professor Mauser, and I guess Detective Rutledge.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

You'll have to really make this brief. You're out of time.

[Joe Comartin, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

I listened to those arguments. The same evidence that they proclaim makes the long-gun registry useless and wasteful, and those kind of terminologies, applies, as I see it, to the handgun registry, the restricted registry. Is there any evidence that supports why we should get rid of the long-gun registry and keep the registry of handguns?

[Wendy Cukier]

The principles are basically the same. That's why I started by saying that all guns are potentially lethal. All gun owners need to be licensed. All guns need to be registered.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Mr. Rathgeber, please.

[Brent Rathgeber, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Thank you, Chair. I'll be sharing my time with Mrs. Glover.

Ms. Cukier, you referred to the Ruger Mini-14 as a weapon that will no longer need to be registered if Bill C-391 was passed. Did I hear that correctly?

[Wendy Cukier]

Yes.

[Brent Rathgeber, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

You'll agree with me that it is a semi-automatic rifle?

[Wendy Cukier]

Yes.

[Brent Rathgeber, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

You'll agree with me that its barrel is less than 47 centimetres?

[Wendy Cukier]

I don't know the length of its barrel, but I know that it's currently sold as a non-restricted firearm and therefore will no longer be registered.

[Brent Rathgeber, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Well, you know that if its barrel is less than 47 centimetres, it's a restricted firearm?

[Wendy Cukier]

The Ruger Mini-14 is most certainly not a restricted firearm. It has a long barrel.

[Brent Rathgeber, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

That wasn't my question. Do you agree with me that if its barrel is less than 47 centimetres, it's restricted?

[Wendy Cukier]

Some variants may be restricted, but the Ruger Mini-14 has a long barrel—

[Brent Rathgeber, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

And if it's altered, cut off, it becomes prohibited. You understand that?

[Wendy Cukier]

Yes.

[Brent Rathgeber, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Thank you.

You referenced $4.1 million savings in your paper. Did you cost that, or did you just rely on the National Post and Canwest Media for that number?

[Wendy Cukier]

I relied on the RCMP. We have two pieces of testimony--

[Brent Rathgeber, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Thank you.

Mr. Gaudet, did you--