Evidence of meeting #34 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was factors.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Conservative
The Clerk
The schedule is reflected in the minutes of proceedings of the committee. The committee agreed to dates and to subject matters for particular dates and that's reflected in the minutes of proceedings. The minutes are public.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON
So that I'm clear, then, he can discuss the content of the in camera discussion, which was what he was doing--
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON
--with the parliamentary secretary and the chair being talked about--
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
On a point of order, I'd like Mr. McColeman to specify what I said, what I revealed, that was privileged. What statement was it?
Conservative
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Order, order. I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to go back and look at the blues, and see exactly what Mr. Davies said, all right? Then I'm going to cross-reference that with the minutes.
We'll cross-reference it with the minutes. If anything was disclosed that is not disclosed in the minutes, then we'll come to Mr. Davies again. All right?
Mr. Holland.
Liberal
Mark Holland Liberal Ajax—Pickering, ON
Mr. Chair, similarly with respect to the calendar, I have a grave concern with the national security adviser stating that she's not going to be available on this issue. I would advise, if I could, the same that we did with the prior witness, which is that she will have two choices: either come voluntarily or by subpoena.
I would further state that we have a motion that we're going to be putting in with respect to the Fadden matter. Given the fact that we now only have one hour of witnesses because the minister refuses to hear from us, what I'd like to see is for us to have an opportunity to deal with that motion regarding this issue--
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
Mr. Chair, may I simply remind you that I made my request before my colleague Mr. Holland made his. I'd like us to finish up with this business and to deal with the fact that Mr. Small refuses to come here and testify at the hearings on the G8 and G20 which are scheduled to begin on Monday.
I'd like to move that this gentleman be subpoenaed to appear before the committee.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
That's not a point.... This is just different from Mr. Holland's.
Bloc
Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC
No, we were already in the middle of debating something, Mr. Chair, hence my point of order.
Conservative
Liberal
Mark Holland Liberal Ajax—Pickering, ON
My suggestion for what we could do is.... Because we have two witnesses that have declined the invitation of the committee, I have suggested that there are two options on how you handle them, and they're both the same.
One is to make a phone call to the witnesses and advise them that they can come voluntarily or they will be subpoenaed. I think that's being very generous to them. That gives them the opportunity of appearing before committee without being forced and being dragged kicking and screaming to the table.
I think if they know that a subpoena is coming, they'd be pretty likely to say yes and to reconsider. But I'm amenable as well, if Madame Mourani would prefer, to just jump directly to a subpoena for both of these witnesses. I'm also amenable to that, but let me just say that for the meeting we are going to have with respect to matters arising from statements by Mr. Fadden, given now that we only have a witness--because we can't force the minister to appear before the committee and he has refused--I would suggest that in the second hour we have an opportunity to debate a motion that I'll be working on and submitting.
That way, we can have that second hour being productive and continuing to be used for the purpose the committee originally intended. I'll be giving notice of that motion and will of course submit it well in advance of the 48 hours.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Any motion today for a subpoena is not going to work because no motion has been submitted with 48 hours' notice. We aren't going to entertain that motion. That's not coming out of what we're discussing today on Bill C-5, plain and simple.
Second, it is common courtesy that in a case like this where they deny.... It has happened before that witnesses have said, “No, I can't make it”. We've said, “Okay, that witness is unavailable”. Then other witnesses have come forward. I think that's why the clerk notified you that they would not come: because they were your witness.
If it's the wish of the committee that he must appear here, then he needs to have that explained first. That's just common courtesy. I would call him and explain that the committee is still very much intent on his appearing before our committee, and that if he chooses not to, we may go the route of a subpoena. If we subpoenaed everybody who said they were not coming to committee, we would be giving subpoenas to hundreds of people, because many people do not want to appear. We get 30 or 40 witnesses on some issues. Every year in Parliament, before all the committees, there are hundreds who choose not to come. On occasion, one may be subpoenaed.
Mr. Holland.
Liberal
Mark Holland Liberal Ajax—Pickering, ON
As much as I find it impossible that anybody wouldn't want to appear before this committee, what I would suggest, then—
October 20th, 2010 / 3:45 p.m.
Conservative