Public Safety Committee on Oct. 20th, 2010

Evidence of meeting #34 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was factors.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Bill C-5, An Act to amend the International Transfer of Offenders Act

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee Mr. Roger Préfontaine

Mary Campbell Director General, Corrections and Criminal Justice Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Michel Laprade Senior Counsel, Legal Services, Correctional Service Canada

5 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

Maybe we should bring them to face the courts here, then?

5 p.m.

Director General, Corrections and Criminal Justice Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Mary Campbell

Correct, but if the concern is that returning to Canada would in some way raise the potential for new crimes in Canada, for further victimization—

5 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

Why? Aren't they going from prison to prison?

5 p.m.

Director General, Corrections and Criminal Justice Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Mary Campbell

Initially, yes.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

Initially--until they fulfill their term, I imagine.

5 p.m.

Director General, Corrections and Criminal Justice Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Mary Campbell

Yes.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

If they finish their term in the United States or Thailand or wherever, they get back to Canada of their own free will and they can continue to commit crimes. So what is the difference between finishing their term in a Canadian prison, an American prison, or a prison anywhere else? That's what I don't get about this bill, and definitely, what Ms. Mourani said earlier about the “shall” and the “may”, that makes a big difference in the context of this bill.

The whole idea of public safety, if we're transferring prisoners.... We're not talking about bringing back people who are free. We're talking about people who are in prison, who will go from one prison to another prison until they fulfill their term.

5 p.m.

Director General, Corrections and Criminal Justice Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Mary Campbell

Yes, but I think the reality that also exists in that situation is that even in prison in Canada, unfortunately they can still commit offences, and that's something we have to consider. If they're coming back to Canada and will then be, if you like, reunited with a particular network or other criminal associates and will be able to more easily commit crimes in Canada even while in prison--

5 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

How sure are we that they don't have exactly the same kind of training or reunification with networks in prisons abroad--or even worse--where we have absolutely no control over what they're doing or what they're being taught or what kinds of networks they're developing?

I don't really understand how letting our citizens be imprisoned abroad is any better for Canada. We offer rehabilitation services here. We offer rehabilitation programs--

Sorry?

5 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

I'm questioning the relevance to the part of the bill; that's not what the bill is going to do, to just keep every prisoner in Canada. I think it's a recognition.... I'll let--

5 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

No, no. It's keeping them out of Canada. That's what this bill wants to do: keep them out of Canada.

October 20th, 2010 / 5:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

No, I don't think the bill wants to do that.

5:05 p.m.

A voice

Mr. Chair--

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

Well, yes, I think that's exactly the intent.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

I'll give you extra time, because I invaded your space.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

That's fine.

But I think that's the whole point of this bill: to keep as many offenders out of Canadian prisons--

5:05 p.m.

An hon. member

Who's the witness?

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

Well, okay, we have different ways of reading this then--

5:05 p.m.

An hon. member

Who's the witness? Come on.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

But I ask how that would in any way protect or safeguard Canadian public safety. In what way would that be better for us once they finish their terms, because eventually they will finish their terms?

5:05 p.m.

Director General, Corrections and Criminal Justice Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Mary Campbell

I would point out again that the amendment to section 3, the purpose of the act, is a limited amendment. The rest of the purpose of the act is exactly as it has been up until this time, so in terms of what the act is intended to do, that wording is still in place.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

But the fact that we changed from “shall” to “may” is a big difference--

5:05 p.m.

Director General, Corrections and Criminal Justice Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Mary Campbell

I understand.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

--and it takes away all the impartiality that should or must be used when evaluating transfer requests.