Public Safety Committee on Oct. 25th, 2010

[Ward Elcock]

Having said that, Mr. Chairman, just to add a small point there, I think one of the key parts of black bloc tactics that is important to remember is crowd dynamics. What the black bloc folks want to do is draw wider numbers of the peaceful demonstrators into the protest.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Mr. Elcock, thank you for those details...

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Madam Mourani, please let him finish. I'll give you the time.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

My question was for Mr. MacNeil. I'd like to ask several questions, so I don't want to spend any more time on the issue of the black bloc. I'd like to continue.

I would like to know whether the RCMP uses agents provocateurs, namely police officers in civilian clothing who mingle with the crowd. Does the RCMP use any?

[C/Supt Alphonse MacNeil]

No, not for the purpose that the expression you're using is used for. We have people in civilian garb who blend in with the crowd to advise us of the movement of the crowd and what tactics they may using, but not to provoke or incite or anything of that nature.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

That's fine.

Moreover, you stated that you had received photos, images and videos from the public and that that enabled you to lay charges.

Why were there so few convictions if you had that much evidence? Perhaps I misunderstood what you said.

[C/Supt Alphonse MacNeil]

I can't speak specifically to the charges themselves or why there would be or wouldn't be convictions. That's before the courts, and I'll leave that to the courts to decide.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

All right.

Since you're an experienced police officer, you are very familiar with the law and human rights.

Do you find it normal that in Canada someone can be detained for 24 or 48 hours without being able to call a lawyer?

[C/Supt Alphonse MacNeil]

It wouldn't be normal to detain people without counsel. I don't know if that happened. I wasn't there; I don't know. But if you're asking the question, do we, we always supply counsel to people when they're detained or arrested.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

You know the RCMP very well. Is leaving people without food or drink for eight hours and carrying out strip searches a normal practice? Is this type of conduct normal in a society where the rule of law prevails, in your opinion?

[C/Supt Alphonse MacNeil]

If I may, I would like to refer to a document from Toronto that talks about the prisoner processing centre. I asked the question, how was the centre designed during the course of our planning? It was a collaborative effort involving both uniform and civilian members of the Toronto Police Service, from areas such as divisional policing, the courts, and investigative and facilities management. The design and concept were based on Toronto Police Service policies and procedures, legal analysis, and current and previous best practices in the design by the design architect. With all of those people involved, I'm sure there were systems in place to deal with the people who were arrested.

The specific questions and the things you've brought up before will have to be brought to the people in charge.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

All right, thank you.

Could we have—

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Very quickly, Madam Mourani.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Could this document be tabled with the committee?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

I'm not sure if that's a public document. Is it a public document?

[C/Supt Alphonse MacNeil]

Right now it's simply an e-mail that I received. I asked the Toronto Police Service for it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

All right.

But is it something that you'd be willing to submit?

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Could we obtain it?

[C/Supt Alphonse MacNeil]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

All right. Thank you very much.

I want to thank each of you for attending today. As we continue, and throughout the study, if you want to go back over...and if you think, after you've left here, that perhaps you could have answered a different way or there would be some information that should be available to this committee, I would ask you to please submit that to our committee. Again, thank you.

Thank you committee.

We are adjourned.