Evidence of meeting #37 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was port.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
I believe there's one, at Coutts.
Are you familiar with the Wild Horse crossing in southern Alberta?
I'm just going to put on the record--and I will take this from government time--the amount of traffic that goes from the United States up to Fort McMurray. It goes all down Highway 2 and through my constituency on Highway 36. Although it may be good for all the businesses along 36, it's important that we have another 24-hour crossing. There are hundreds and hundreds of kilometres before you come to another border crossing, and we're talking about closing some of them. If it's 15 or 20 kilometres to the next one, I guess I wonder why in Alberta we only have one 24-hour border crossing.
That's maybe for another time.
Take that off government time.
We'll go to Mr. Gourd.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd also like to thank our witnesses for being with here.
In terms of low traffic flows and difficult decisions, what criteria do you use? Is the calculation based on annual crossings?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
Do you mean in terms of examining crossings and whether they remain open?
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC
It was mentioned that there are low traffic volumes at certain ports of entry, meaning that there are few vehicles going through on a daily basis. How far back do your statistics go—one year, two years or five years?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
We have statistics that probably go back two to three years. We certainly keep them on trends in volume and border wait times.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC
As a general rule, I suppose we are talking about border crossings where is it pretty much the same people going through at regular hours. When you decided which ports of entry would be shut down, did you consider the distance to the next closest service location where people would be able to cross the border?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
We considered approximately four key factors because making our decision.
When we looked at the ports of entry we're talking about here, compared to Mr. Davies' example of Kenora, if the nearest port is 10 to 15 kilometres away, that's a much different consideration than one that's 50 or 100 kilometres away. The ability of local residents to use a closer port would go into our consideration, to a certain extent.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC
As regards the border crossings you intend to close in Quebec, how far away are the next closest service locations?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
In the case of Jamieson's Line, it's about 10 kilometres; in the case of Franklin Centre, it's 16 kilometres; and in the case of Big Beaver, it is about 60 kilometres.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC
Sixteen kilometers, you say. Is that as the bird flies or taking the closest road?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
That would be by the closest roads.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC
These decisions will certainly have repercussions. Indeed, the money saved will be used to improve the closest port of entry by introducing new technology. What kind of savings are we talking about?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
On the three points of entry we're debating here, I believe the total savings will be about $1.25 million.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC
Is that the amount for the three ports of entry?
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC
Thank you.
This process as a whole will mean that all ports of entry outside Quebec will be making money. You mentioned an amount of $1.5 million.
Is that for the process as a whole or only for the province of Quebec?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
That's just for the three ports: two in Quebec and one in Saskatchewan. If you're talking about the entire process, in excess of $58 million will be returned annually to the government for reallocation for higher-priority expenditures.
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC
Will there be job losses as a result of this process?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
There are certainly jobs that will be affected by the closure of the ports. We are hopeful, and it will be my priority, that within the ambits of the attrition--the turnover that CBSA deals with each year--we will be able to offer alternate employment to all of the employees who are affected.
Liberal
Alan Tonks Liberal York South—Weston, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I don't sit on this committee, but it did occur to me that there is obviously a net value both to the regional economy at the vicinity of the border crossing and an additional value to the Canadian economy in terms of that transport of goods and services, and whatever.
I notice that you placed as your two criteria, to protect our country and facilitate trade. It would seem to me that the 5,000 people, plus the mayor, who's going to be coming and talking to this committee, would be looking at the impact on the regional economy in terms of the kinds of jobs the port of entry provides.
When you are doing your analysis of those particular locations right across the country, how much does the trade factor in? Do you also look at your nearest port in terms of absorbing and capturing that value-added? Do you report, through the Auditor General or your particular report, and re-evaluate that decision during the course of your five-year strategic plan or whatever it is?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
Thank you for the question.
Obviously we are always looking at the throughput through all of our ports. We're always looking at the size of the facility, the amount of commercial traffic that goes through, the individual traffic that goes through, and our ability to respond to the pressures at each individual location. Comparisons between, say, Franklin Centre and the Ambassador Bridge in Windsor are obviously very difficult to make.
If you are looking at the trade implications of a particular small location, it's very difficult for us to quantify that. Obviously there are local firms who are going to have to drive a little further perhaps in terms of moving their traffic through the border. There will be a marginal cost to them. We recognize that.
But in terms of my ability to have a discussion about what my true lowest-priority issues are, there would be no comparison between smaller ports in terms of cost-efficiency, and a larger port, where just the sheer volume in terms of the capacity of my officers to handle commercial throughput is going to be much different.
That's not the only criterion, though. I want to stress this over and over again. We look at a whole range of factors, which in the aggregate add up to certain conclusions that we would make.
Liberal
Alan Tonks Liberal York South—Weston, ON
Mr. Chairman, do I have one more minute?
Just on the last part of the question, you now retrospectively see the concern that's raised through communities and so on that would perhaps want to make a case that might question the criteria that were used.
I do understand that you're allocated a reduction package that you have to contribute to through the overall departmental spectrum, but is there part of your policy that says we've made this decision, we had to make it, but we're going to review it in five years or whatever? Is that in the process?