Public Safety Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2010

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Okay, I understand, but let me tell you frankly about my own modest experience as a researcher. This is not the first time I have been involved in studies and research. Here is our premise: when 40 or so people who do not know each other tell you the same thing, perhaps there is an element of truth to it. When people come and consistently tell me the same things and those people do not even know each other, I begin to wonder.

Perhaps I would not have asked the question if I had received a complaint about one or two police officers, or 10 officers. But people are telling me about systemic problems. I have been told about systemic problems at the temporary detention centre for which you first responsible. For example, people had no right to see a lawyer. It could take 16, sometimes 24 hours before they saw someone. The people were not questioned, which is very strange. They got a disgusting cheese sandwich to eat after about eight hours, and questionable water to drink. They had to relieve themselves in chemical toilets in full view of everyone and with little or no toilet paper. There were no pads for women on the pill who were menstruating because the pills had been taken away.

There is a lot of information reported by a lot of people. My impression is that the detention centre was poorly organized to handle the number of people you arrested.

[Chief William Blair]

First of all, the Office of the Independent Police Review Director is conducting a systemic review of a number of complaints, including a review of the prisoner processing centre.

I viewed that facility. We also invited representatives of the Ontario Human Rights Commission, the Canadian Civil Liberties Association, and our Office of the Independent Police Review Director to review the facilities. As well, we allowed the press to come in.

There were video cameras in the prisoner processing centre every 10 feet because we had a reasonable expectation of complaints that would come in. I have over 3,000 hours of videotaped evidence of what actually transpired inside the prisoner processing centre, which will aid the Office of the Independent Police Review Director in coming to an accurate determination.

I can tell you as well—

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Are you telling me that these people's allegations are wrong? Let me give you a simple example, since we do not have much time. Is it true that people had only a sandwich to eat every eight hours? Let's just talk about the toilet paper. Did people have toilet paper so that they could use the toilets—in full view of everyone? That's a simple example.

[Chief William Blair]

The toilets that were installed are exactly according to the standard established for every provincial institution for the holding of prisoners awaiting court. It was actually not run by the police; it was run by my court security people, who process prisoners each and every day. The facilities, the cells that were constructed for this event, and the temporary prisoner processing facility were exactly according to provincial standards.

Let me also tell you that in this facility there were, as prisoners were brought in and processed, medical facilities made available. If anyone had a medical complaint, there were medical personnel on site. There were legal aid people on site. There was a large room filled with—

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

But, Mr. Blair, some people have told me that were not able to see a doctor. People with diabetes could not get their insulin. Some people had psychotic episodes, since they did not have their medication. I do not understand. We really have two stories here.

Given the time I have, I will come back to the issue of detention centres. But I want to bring up one particular point. The photo...

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Actually, Madame Mourani, excuse me. You were right. You don't have time. Your time is up. You're over seven minutes.

Mr. Davies, please.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

Chief Blair, I take it that you would agree with me that your job as the chief of police of Toronto is to uphold the law.

[Chief William Blair]

Yes.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

And you would also agree with me that the law that you're sworn to uphold includes the Constitution of this country?

[Chief William Blair]

Absolutely.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

And part of that Constitution that makes up our law that you're sworn to uphold is the Charter of Rights and Freedoms?

[Chief William Blair]

Yes.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I think you also would agree with me that police are supposed to be accountable for their actions to the public and to the politicians as well.

[Chief William Blair]

I think the police must be accountable and are held accountable in the province of Ontario.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I think in your statement that you made in an interview with Mr. Steve Paikin you said you wanted to make sure “that innocent people are not victimized” as part one of your role's duties for the G-20.

[Chief William Blair]

One of my duties is also the protection of the public.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Fair enough, and what about making sure innocent people are not victimized? Is that part of your role as chief of police?

[Chief William Blair]

That's correct.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

You've heard the testimony of Mr. Gagnon. I've had a number of students come to see me who told me that in the University of Toronto grad gym, in the early morning, over 70 to 100 people--I can't really get a square number--were awakened by police barging in with their guns drawn. They kicked them in the ribs. They loudly proclaimed that all of them were being mass-arrested for conspiracy. There was no evidence whatsoever of any conspiracy, since every single person in that room had their charges dropped.

They tell me that they had their hands zap-strapped behind their backs and were led out. Just before they got outside to the media, the zap straps were taken off and they were put in handcuffs to be paraded in front of the media. Then when they got onto the buses, they had the handcuffs removed and zap straps were put back on.

I take it you'd agree with me that since none of those people were convicted of anything, they were innocent people who had their charter rights violated.

[Chief William Blair]

A decision was made to take those people into custody. It was based on reasonable and probable grounds: evidence that the police had available to them that caused them to believe these people had been involved in a crime. They were arrested for that purpose.

A decision was subsequently made--for reasons I do not question--by a crown attorney not to proceed with those charges--

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Sir--

[Chief William Blair]

-- so I will agree with you that they are innocent of all charges. But the courts determine guilt or innocence. The police have to act on reasonable and probable grounds and a reasonable apprehension that the crime has been committed, and that's what took place in this case.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Right, well, if police arrest 70 people claiming they have reasonable and probable grounds and 70 out of 70 people have their charges dropped at the first appearance, that would cause me, if I were chief of police, to have some serious doubt about the exercise of discretion by my officers who thought they had reasonable and probable grounds.

[Chief William Blair]

Again, this is also the matter of--

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Do you have that concern?