Public Safety Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2010

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Then they came back.

[Kevin Gagnon]

Yes.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Can you charge people in a gymnasium where they have permission to sleep with unlawful assembly and conspiracy…

[Kevin Gagnon]

It was “taking part in a riot”.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

…taking part in a riot? The people were asleep. What was this riot they took part in?

[Chief William Blair]

There had been a riot earlier. There was also a conspiracy. The law is rather complex. I'm not really qualified to explain it to you, but I will do my best.

First of all, a conspiracy is an agreement by two or more persons to engage in activity that is an indictable offence, and there must be acts in furtherance, in support of that. That's what constitutes a conspiracy.

Let me be very clear about a warrant. First of all, the police in Canada have the authority under the Criminal Code to make an arrest with or without a warrant. If a warrant is issued by a judicial authority, we may execute that warrant. But a police officer may also arrest on reasonable and probable grounds that an offence has been committed. Under these circumstances--

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

But can you hold them for three or four days?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

No, Madame, your time is up. We'll listen to the answer.

[Chief William Blair]

So on reasonable and probable grounds, a person can be arrested if a police officer believes an offence has been committed and this is the individual responsible. The law requires that this individual must be brought before a justice of the peace within 24 hours; it's forthwith and within 24 hours. Once that is done, once the police satisfy that legal requirement to bring an offender before a justice of the peace, then the justice of the peace may remand that individual in custody for a period of time. That may be, with their consent, for an extended period of time, or for a shorter period of time, to enable a bail hearing to take place.

I have no direct experience on this, so you must forgive me--I want to qualify my comments--but I believe that's what transpired in this case.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Blair.

Mr. Davies.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

Monsieur Gagnon, do I have your testimony right that the police, when they entered the gym, had their guns drawn? Did any of the police have guns?

[Kevin Gagnon]

Yes, they certainly did. I think what they had were rifles firing rubber bullets. I am not really sure, I am not in the habit of getting arrested. They were pointing all kinds of rifles at us, the kind that fires rubber bullets.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Chief Blair, I know that you've repeatedly said that the proper place to complain about police behaviour is the independent police complaints commission. But I would imagine that as chief of police there's also a number of things that you as chief want to know about if your officers are not complying with proper procedure.

You've already mentioned in terms of your rule about covering the.... You dealt with that. That wasn't a complaint made to the complaints commission. Is that right?

[Chief William Blair]

Actually, there were complaints made to the public complaints commissioner--

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I haven't asked my question yet, sir. Can I ask my question?

[Chief William Blair]

--but he sent those complaints back to me to investigate.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Okay.

Do you have rules of engagement for when officers may draw their gun or not?

[Chief William Blair]

There are rules both in the Criminal Code and in our procedures.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Right. Can you tell us, in this situation with police going into a gymnasium of sleeping students, is that a proper situation in your view for officers to enter in with rifles and guns drawn?

[Chief William Blair]

All I can tell you is that it may be. It depends on what their reasonable apprehension is when going into those places, on what they're expecting. You know, they have to do that job safely. Police officers do carry guns to effect a purpose, and the execution of a search warrant.... Over the course of my police career, I've executed many warrants. I've gone into many places to arrest people. If I believe that there may be armed persons there, then--

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Chief, did any of the officers find any guns in that gymnasium?

[Chief William Blair]

To the best of my knowledge, no.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

No.

Typically when police arrest people, many times they don't draw their guns to arrest someone, do they?

[Chief William Blair]

Not in very many circumstances.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

That's right.