Public Safety Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2010

[Andrew Kania, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

So, from your perspective.... The estimates that I have been advised of say that it cost about $200 million more in taxpayers' dollars to split the summits between Huntsville and Toronto. I'm wondering if you are aware of any security reasons why that extra $200 million would have had to be spent to divide the summits.

[Chief William Blair]

I can't answer that question. I have no information that I could assist you with. I just don't know. I don't know the basis of how that number was determined and I'm not aware of what costs they're referring to.

[Andrew Kania, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

So as you sit here today, you can't think of anything in particular that would have required the additional expenditure of approximately $200 million to split the summits.

[Chief William Blair]

I can't help you with that. I can't think of anything.

[Andrew Kania, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

You can't think of anything. Okay.

Deputy Commissioner Beechey, you handled the G-8 in Huntsville. How much notice did you have in terms of planning the G-8?

[D/Commr Larry Beechey]

We had almost two years. We had a planning team in place approximately 18 months before.

[Andrew Kania, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Chief Blair, you had how much notice to plan the G-20 in Toronto?

[Chief William Blair]

We began planning in earnest in November 2009, so that's about eight months.

[Andrew Kania, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

So you had eight months, and the OPP, for Huntsville, for the smaller summit, had approximately two years.

Now for the Huntsville summit, the G-8 summit, Deputy Commissioner, with adequate notice, from a security perspective, could you also have handled the G-20 summit in the Huntsville area?

[D/Commr Larry Beechey]

There would have been significant challenges, and not just in security. We had concerns about housing people up there, about the accommodations. As you heard in the previous testimony of the RCMP, we had to create a whole trailer village just for our own staff.

Overall, I think, when you're talking about the media and the rest of it, there would not have been the accommodations there. If it had to be split off that one site, it would have created another challenge for us that , probably, would have been comparable to the Toronto one.

[Andrew Kania, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

For both of you, I have comparisons here of the G-20 summit in London, where $30 million was spent, and the G-20 summit in Pittsburgh, where $18 million U.S. was spent.

Can the two of you provide any reasons as to why $1.2 billion or $1.3 billion, whatever the final figure turns out to be, was spent on this?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Very quickly, please.

[Chief William Blair]

Particularly with respect to the London summit--let me speak to that--I believe that it really is a comparison of apples and oranges.

First of all, the national police service of England is located in London. I believe there are 40,000 police officers working in London, which is also an international city that polices a number of very significant crowd control events and is adequately staffed for that.

Certainly, in the city of Toronto, I have 5,600 police officers, but we had to maintain business continuity and continue to police our city. We could not have policed an event of the magnitude of the G-20 in Toronto without the support of other police services from across Canada.

There are costs associated with bringing those police officers to Toronto, costs for housing them and feeding them and providing them with the necessary equipment to do their jobs. I believe this accounts to a large degree for the differences in expenses between what transpired in England and what transpired in Toronto.

In addition, I believe that the London numbers pertain only to the actual overtime costs of the personnel involved. I have learned from my experience with the G-20 that, in addition to overtime costs, there are many other costs associated with providing security for an event of this kind.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much, Mr. Blair.

We'll go to Mr. Norlock.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you very much to the witnesses for appearing today.

I will start with a comment. This committee has not heard from the mayor of Toronto, so it should be reticent in talking about evidence that we have not heard.

First, I would like to ask you, Chief Blair, did you have enough time, in your opinion, to plan for this summit and to provide adequate security for the people of Toronto and the people attending the summit and for the safety of your officers?

[Chief William Blair]

[Inaudible--Editor]...to get the job done. I have to tell you that it was an extraordinary effort by some great people who worked very, very hard to get us ready, but we had a lot of support in doing that. There were a lot of communications back and forth among our summit partners.

I believe that you can't prevent every crime. You can't plan and prepare for every and any eventuality. But I think the work that was necessary was done. We had the resources there that we needed to do the job.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you.

Deputy Commissioner, did you feel that you and the Ontario Provincial Police had sufficient time to plan for the safety of the Huntsville residents, the people of Toronto, and the people attending the G-8 and for the safety of your officers?

[D/Commr Larry Beechey]

Yes. The one thing I would like to mention, nonetheless, is that even though we had a lot more time than Toronto, some of our challenges were around the building of infrastructure. For example, we had a detachment up there that looked after about 40 officers, and we had to go to a radio-telecom system that supported over 3,000 officers. So there were still major challenges, but we did have enough time to prepare.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you very much.

I'll start with Chief Blair and then ask Mr. Beechey the following.

Were you directed by any mayor or elected official in Toronto, any elected federal person or appointed person, or any department telling you how to go about providing safety and security?

[Chief William Blair]

No.

[D/Commr Larry Beechey]

No, sir.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

For the 19,000 security personnel who were in Toronto, do you believe you had sufficient resources—

[Chief William Blair]

I'm sorry, sir, but not all 19,000 of them were in Toronto. They were split between the two events.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

In Toronto, about how many personnel were there?

[Chief William Blair]

Initially, I believe, the number was approximately 6,000, but when the events transpired on Saturday and it became clear that we needed additional personnel and help, the help was forthcoming. The OPP sent a lot of their resources down from Huntsville on Saturday night to help us in Toronto.