Public Safety Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2010

Evidence of meeting #41 for Public Safety and National Security in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was i've.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Bill C-23B, An Act to amend the Criminal Records Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts

Review of the Criminal Records Act (Private Members' Business M-514)

MPs speaking

Also speaking

John Hutton Executive Director, John Howard Society of Manitoba

Barrett Fraser Board Member, John Howard Society of Manitoba

Chris Courchene Level 1 Carpenter Apprentice, Building Urban Industries for Local Development

Andrea Derbecker Training Coordinator, Building Urban Industries for Local Development

Kenton Eidse Employment Consultant and Facilitator, Community Office, Opportunities for Employment

Mumtaz Muhammed Participant, Community Office, Opportunities for Employment

4:35 p.m.

Participant, Community Office, Opportunities for Employment

Mumtaz Muhammed

I went through that too. I did a robbery. One of my conditions was that the people I robbed ended up showing up at the court. It was like a two-sided thing without really having to go through court. They told me how they felt and how it impacted them. So I've already been through that. To have other people, because of the stuff I've done--I did robberies and slept in dwelling houses, because I was on the streets--I have no problem with that.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON

By the way, I have just one last comment, if you will allow me. I don't consider any of you to be in that most heinous category, as was depicted. That was a misrepresentation. If it came across that way, it was not meant that way.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you, Mr. McColeman.

Madame Mendes.

4:35 p.m.

Bloc

Maria Mourani Bloc Ahuntsic, QC

Mr. Chair, given the fact that the witnesses have talked about their offences, will Mr. McColeman grant them a pardon? It's just that, during the testimony, it felt like we were at a National Parole Board hearing.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

That is not a point of order.

Madame Mendes.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

If this bill passes, none of you would be eligible for a pardon. That would be the first limiting thing. Victim impact or not, it wouldn’t change much in your cases. This is why we are against this legislation. Pardons have always been a privilege; they are not a right, and I think we all agree on this. I think Mr. Hutton was taking a good policy direction when he asked why we were changing this on the basis of the most heinous examples. Why don’t we look at how the pardon system worked? Was it working well? I would like to give you the opportunity to pursue that.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you, Madame Mendes.

Mr. Hutton.

4:35 p.m.

Executive Director, John Howard Society of Manitoba

John Hutton

Both Kenton and I mentioned that 96% of pardons did not have to be revoked. Pardons were granted under the system that was in effect up until June. This shows that the system was working well and that those who were applying for pardons had gone past the period of risk. There are repeat offenders, I understand that. In my work, I meet many of these individuals. But somebody who has gone at least five years without committing an offence has stopped being a repeat offender. So pardons aren’t being given to repeat offenders. They may be given to people who have offended many times in the past, but at some point they have stopped, moved forward, and achieved stability.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

They have spent five years or more taking charge of their lives and trying to find a path that will make them productive citizens. Wouldn’t it be a lot less productive if we denied them pardons? Then they wouldn’t be able to find that path.

Mr. Muhammed or Mr. Courchene, if you didn't have the possibility of obtaining a pardon, would that be one more reason for you to go back to a life of crime?