Public Safety Committee on Dec. 6th, 2010

[John Kirton]

Yes, I would. I certainly agree with the Right Honourable Paul Martin. It's important for Canadians to remember that Paul Martin was the co-creator and founding visionary of the G-20 back when it was a finance ministers forum invented with Larry Summers in 1999.

Secondly, we need to remember the 2001 G-20 finance ministers meeting held in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks on North America on September 11. All other international meetings were cancelled, as was the G-20 scheduled to be held in India. Paul Martin stepped forward on behalf of Canada and said that we needed international meetings. He did incur the cost of securing a site in Ottawa so that the G-20 finance ministers meeting could take place and effectively it turned its focus to combatting terrorist financing.

As we move forward, of course, in 2004 and 2005, Paul Martin led the international crusade to elevate the G-20 finance ministers forum to the leaders level and got all of his colleagues as leaders to agree, save one. That was President Bush of the United States. Three years later, President Bush changed his mind. I think Paul Martin speaks from having been there and done that, if I could put it that way.

As for the benefits and the responsibilities of hosting—let's call them the branding benefits, broadly defined—we always have to remember that the Government of Canada and many Canadians quite properly were going around the world and saying, “Look, we have the world's finest financial system and we survived the crisis intact.” Toronto had become one of the world's leading global financial centres, so there was a particular message for a finance-focused summit to be in that particular location.

More importantly, the Toronto G-20 summit was the first that was co-hosted by an old established advanced G-8 economy, Canada, and a newly emerging rising trans-Pacific one, Korea. By hosting that summit, and in the home of Canadians of Korean and Asian origin in large number, Canada made history, and of course the visual venue was appropriate for the political innovation in global governance that was being held.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Kirton.

We'll now move back to the Bloc.

Monsieur Vincent, welcome to our committee. You have five minutes.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm going to share my speaking time with my colleague.

Mr. Kirton, I'm going to ask you a brief question, and I would like quite a brief answer because I'm sharing my time.

Earlier you said that where the G8 and G20 summits took place, in Muskoka and Huntsville respectively, and also in the other surrounding villages, expenditures were incurred in connection with those summits. You couldn't state the exact amounts. However, could you tell us what action was taken?

In fact, you said that it couldn't stop as amounts had already been spent. How was that money spent before the G8 Summit?

[John Kirton]

If I may, in English, firstly, from the moment a summit site is publicly announced, there is, on behalf of the Government of Canada, a great deal of activity. There are resources spent primarily by civil servants in doing all of the necessary logistical preparations. Much of it is related to security. Some of it is rather mundane FAC-OPS, as it's known in the jargon of the trade, facilities and operations, including such things as whether there will be adequate electricity to the specific site, the Deerhurst Inn and whether the rooms are individually large enough for the appropriate foreign visitors who will stay there? Of course, contracts then have to be let to provide for the backup arrangements.

I do recall in the lead-up after the announcement, from discussions with Mayor Doughty on site, that there was some concern that the Ontario Provincial Police, the Huntsville detachment, had only one or two two-way radios--completely inadequate for the volume of telecommunications to secure the event. So there were investments like that beginning, from the starting pistol, as it were.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I understand what you mean. They wanted to invest immediately where they were for the G8 Summit. However, there was a lot more spending than that. For example, they rebuilt a landing strip at an airport, which cost $4.6 million.

Maria, do you want me to continue?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Madame Mourani.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was asking you to act as a time keeper. It's because we're not following that. That's what I wanted to tell you, but it's not serious. It's fine.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

You have two and a half minutes, but I'm not going to cut off Monsieur Vincent. You can cut off your own colleague. He does very well.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

All right.

Mr. Kirton, I'm going to pursue my colleague's line of questioning. Since we're talking about money, what is your opinion of the big $10,000 meals, the artificial lake, gifts given to certain individuals, all the bells and whistles, the tablecloths and so on?

[John Kirton]

I can speak with a little more knowledge than normal about this because we had the responsibility of hosting the Russian presidency and advising them on how to host their first ever G-8 summit in 2006. One of the questions they first asked was, how much should we spend on gifts for each of the levels involved? There's a well-known G-8 summit tradition of what the range of those gifts should be. To my knowledge, the Canadian government followed that and respected it as a matter of standard operating procedure for the G-8.

On the second point you mention, I recall--

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

I don't understand, Mr. Kirton. You're telling us it's normal to use taxpayer's money to build artificial lakes worth several millions of dollars, to hook up sewers to the tune of $80 million, that have nothing to do with security.

How many millions of dollars are involved in this affair? Is it $1.2 million?

You told us about $15,000 meals, tablecloths and so on. Is that all normal? Is that all right in your mind? Taxpayers' money can be used for that purpose, when there are people starving to death here, in Quebec and in Canada? You think it's normal for us to welcome people from everywhere and to give them presents? Is that normal?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Madame Mourani.

You have about 25 seconds to answer.

[John Kirton]

I was speaking specifically of the gifts. But on the water feature, I do recall that we had one at the Toronto summit in 1988, and because a little more money was spent, some authentic Canadian wildlife was brought in, our summit beavers. It was an enormous hit with the media, and it really did help convey a favourable image of Canada to the world and show a part of Canada that would not otherwise have been seen in downtown Toronto.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much, Mr. Kirton.

I will now move to Mr. Rathgeber, please.

[Brent Rathgeber, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for your attendance today.

My questions will be to Mr. Lepp and Mr. Chavarie. I understand you both hold executive positions with the University of British Columbia Students' Union, Okanagan Campus?

[Grayson Lepp]

Yes, that's correct. I'm currently the executive chair and financial coordinator and have previously held an executive position. I've done two terms on senate--

[Brent Rathgeber, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

That's fine.

You're an executive as well...?

[Kirk Chavarie]

Yes. This will be my second year on student council.

[Brent Rathgeber, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Who prepared this brief?

[Grayson Lepp]

Kirk, me, and our staff.

[Brent Rathgeber, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Okay.

Now, Mr. Lepp, you indicated that you don't know a whole lot about guns, if I heard you correctly?

[Grayson Lepp]

That is correct.

[Brent Rathgeber, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Chavarie, is your knowledge of guns any better than your friend Mr. Lepp's?

[Kirk Chavarie]

I think generally looking at the guns that were presented, we definitely did see exactly what type of guns they were, and there was a gun listed in there that actually looked somewhat like a grenade launcher.

[Brent Rathgeber, Conservative, Edmonton—St. Albert, AB]

If neither one of you is a gun expert, how do you know you were awoken with an M-32 six-shot 40-millimetre launcher with riot-suppressive ammo?