Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I am pleased to have you here and hear what you have to say, finally.
I have to say that this was something I was not familiar with, prison farms. When Sister Pauline Lally says they have a 150-year history, I think the reason the program has survived to today is that it must have positive effects in Canadian and Quebec society, given the number of people who must have gone through this kind of program.
We are told, with the statistics to show it, that over 4,668 inmates have gone through the prison farms. If we come back to the apprenticeship program Mr. Edmunds was just talking about, and I also noted what Mr. Leeman said, they talked about welding, mechanics, and in some documents, communications work, computer work, and of course agriculture, shipping and receiving, and heavy equipment repair. When I look at all that, having worked for over 30 years in labour relations, as the head of a union, I can say that these are trades that are in demand everywhere in society.
If people come out with apprenticeships in these areas, we will be building a much more just society for these inmates getting out of prison, who are often looking for jobs. It is not always easy, because not everyone is prepared to accept a former inmate. But when they come with such significant apprenticeships, I think that counts. I found it very striking to see the results described by nearly everyone around this table.
There is one question I would like to ask, and I don't know whom I should put it to. You have talked a lot about the economic benefits for the immediately surrounding communities. For the region immediately around Kingston, you talked about major economic benefits for farmers and for the communities in all their forms. Prisons buy a lot of things in the community, from what I understand. We haven't been able to get figures so we can see what impact the economic benefits might have in society in general.
I mention economic benefits because I have been told that it costs $4 million, when the result, when people get out, when they find themselves back in society and start to pay taxes immediately, is significant. It is profitable for society when they start paying taxes immediately. The little $4 million extra it may cost can sometimes bring in a lot more in terms of social benefits. If we take it away, if we put them in normal prisons, excuse the expression, and just let them stagnate there, it's counter-productive, particularly when they are getting close to leaving prison.
This question could be for Mr. Leeman. What effect did this kind of program have on you when you got out? How did you integrate into society?
On the question of economic benefits, maybe Mr. Edmunds could respond to that from the perspective of various communities.
And for a response from an academic, Mr. Flanagan could explain the pedagogical impact of this kind of training in prison.
So that makes three questions for three people.