Evidence of meeting #13 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was firearms.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC
In other words, you can't say that it's inaccurate but you can't say that it's accurate, either.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
That's right.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you. That is right on the timeline as well.
Now we'll move back to the government, with Mr. Rathgeber, please, for seven minutes.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses for your attendance here today. My questions will be limited to the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada.
Ms. Stoddart, it's nice to see you again. You are the Privacy Commissioner for Canada, and your office's express mandate is to protect and promote the privacy and rights of Canadian citizens.
You talked in your opening comments about the storage and destruction of the data currently held by the firearms registry. I'm more curious about the collection in the first place. As the person whose office is charged with protecting the privacy of Canadians, are you not gravely concerned that mandating law-abiding Canadians—hunters, fishermen—to part with personal information is philosophically a breach of their privacy?
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Honourable Member, I can't answer you on the philosophy. I'm only really mandated to answer you concerning the application of the Privacy Act. The Privacy Act allows the government to collect personal information if it is in relation to a law or a program that is extant. To the extent that the government of the day has a law or a program, it can then collect personal information in support of this.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
But your mandate is to protect and promote the privacy of Canadian citizens. You have commented on the appropriateness of legislation. I refer to the proposed secure flight legislation, concerning which you're on record as stating—and I hope I'm quoting you correctly—that “the Canadian government has a duty to protect the privacy and civil rights of citizens”. You had concerns about the proposed secure flight legislation. Do you recall that?
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I do.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
So do you not have similar concerns about forcing law-abiding hunters and fishermen to part with personal information when they've done nothing illegal?
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Honourable Member, I was commenting in that context on proposed legislation. I'm here to comment again on proposed legislation, and my comments have to do with the necessary destruction under this proposed legislation and some of the principles in the Privacy Act about destruction for a program that would be eliminated—with the information that was gathered from Canadians no longer being relevant to a program that would be abolished. I comment on the proposal to destroy Canadians' personal information and perhaps caution about making sure there is no further need for it in some cases.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Based on what you said about the proposed secure flight legislation, am I safe to assume that if we were in fact debating the implementation of a firearms registry, you would have the same concerns that you have with respect to the proposed secure flight legislation?
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
That is a hypothetical question, Honourable Member. Were that legislation to come before the House and were I to be called, I would look at that legislation at that time.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Thank you.
The RCMP has told us that there have been 300 breaches of the firearms registry, I think between 2000 and 2004, and I understand that only 80 of them have been resolved and charges laid. So are there still over 200 outstanding?
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I can't comment on that, Honourable Member. Over the roughly 12 to 15 years of the Canadian firearms program, we have received about 70 complaints, all of which have eventually been resolved.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
So you don't have access, or you don't investigate the complaints that are filed with the RCMP, the keepers of the data?
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
No, I investigate complaints that come to my office.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
I have a question for Ms. Thom, if you can hear me from Vancouver.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
We've heard information, I think from the YMCA, regarding the effectiveness of the long-gun registry in promoting the safety of women. I think in your comments you indicated that you took issue with it with respect to the accuracy of the information. Could you comment on whether in your view the long-gun registry in its current form does or does not protect the safety of women?
As an Individual
No, it doesn't prevent crime, because it can't predict it. The thrust of my argument there is that the registry really is only effective after the fact, after a crime has been committed; therefore, what we should be doing is taking a look at prevention measures. This really hits on social services and the methods to get at and alleviate the problems that are going on domestically, or street gangs, that sort of thing, who might attack women—and men, at night. Men are also at risk, of course.
Unfortunately, the registry has been a huge boondoggle and a huge waste of money, because if we had put that kind of money into boots on the ground and into aiding social agencies and educational institutions to educate people so that they can understand what to look for, if someone is acting oddly.... Something as basic as more street lighting, in some cases, would really help a lot. I am sure every police force in Canada would welcome more people in their anti-guns and anti-gangs squads, and of course the federal police in the anti-smuggling—and border police, too. That is the job of those border police constantly, every single day, and we need not to forget them.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
I'll have to stop you there.
I want to go back to Ms. Stoddart with respect to the secure flight legislation. That legislation would have potentially shared the information of suspected terrorists. Is that not correct?
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I think it would have, as I remember it—
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
It would have allowed the Canadian government to share information regarding—
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
It would have shared more than that.
Conservative
Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB
Right. And you were concerned that those individual Canadians were entitled to the protection of the Privacy Act.