Public Safety Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2011

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

You're the Information Commissioner. We know about the Federal Court decision in the Bronskill case. I thought we were heading towards more open government when it came to information. Information should be public and retained. There's a lot of talk about transparency.

Doesn't it worry you, as the Information Commissioner, that a bill like C-19 should be passed and that all the rules of access to information should be changed? It's one way of looking at it. It seems somewhat inconsistent with what we're always trying to do, namely to be as transparent as possible. We're destroying instead of retaining. Doesn't that worry you a little, in terms of your role as Information Commissioner?

[Suzanne Legault]

I'm here to recall that the basis of access to information is the management of information. The transitional provisions in the bill remove responsibility from the national archivist, to whom it was given, of determining the best way to manage all types of information. We don't retain all the information produced; we'd be completely swamped if we did so. We retain all information that has some operational, decision-making, cultural or historical value. There are various criteria. The expert in this area is the national archivist. This is the person who examines all the elements and determines the best way to manage information. When this stage is properly done, my work as the Information Commissioner is facilitated, because I know that the right information, the information that should be retained, is retained.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Aren't you worried that this stage may be short-circuited? We're not talking about insignificant information; we're talking about the registry, information that concerns people, data that are personal and private. This is pretty serious information. Doesn't short-circuiting this stage worry you?

[Suzanne Legault]

Of course. That's why I'm here. That's exactly what I said in my initial presentation.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Do you think it would be hard to destroy all the data, or can this be done with a single click?

[Suzanne Legault]

I think you should put this question to an expert in technology who could tell you exactly how the registry is designed. I really don't have the expertise.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

I suppose you're not concerned, as the Information Commissioner, with knowing how to protect this information, of which there is a considerable quantity, and knowing how it can disappear. Does that not concern you? You say that's not your role.

[Suzanne Legault]

I affirm exactly the same thing I said to you earlier. This is part of information management. Information management is the responsibility of all senior managers in all federal institutions. They must comply with policies respecting information management and the Library and Archives of Canada Act. The bill would eliminate this stage of information management, which is one of our functions in the federal government. That is what worries me. To my mind, this would not be a sound precedent when it comes to public policy.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you. That's clear.

My comments are for the ladies of the YWCA. As we know, owning guns is part of the lifestyle of many people in rural Canada, in regions in the North.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Very quickly.

[Françoise Boivin, NDP, Gatineau, QC]

My intervention will be brief.

What were the repercussions of the firearms registry on women in rural regions? Did it improve the safety of women in rural areas?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

I think we're going to have to leave it there. You're maybe going to have to answer that in with another question. We're already over our time. I have to try to manage the roughly seven minutes here for each one. You may be able to answer that later on.

We'll now move to Mr. Leef, split with Mr. Breitkreuz, please.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to our northern guests.

What I've been hearing a bit in testimony today, and we've heard it filter out a little bit over the last few meetings.... What is a little bit concerning for me is that we've now taken this issue of the registry and it seems as though we've created a female and male issue, a victim and offender issue. What we're forgetting here are the athletes, hunters, trappers, sport shooters, collectors, and law-abiding Canadian citizens who use guns every day. We've now created man against woman, victim and offender here, without really demonstrating where that registry is truly saving lives. As you said, A plus B isn't equalling C, or we don't have the empirical evidence to do that.

As a northerner, I can certainly appreciate the challenges in the north and the higher violence rates there. My tendency would be to want to deal with the root cause of those crimes, deal with the drug and alcohol addictions and the issues that are uniquely facing the north, to prevent those things from happening. I'm really failing to see where the registry stops a person from making a horrible choice to be involved in domestic violence.

My question is to Mr. McNeely. Do women hunt in the communities you live in?

[Daniel McNeely]

Absolutely.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Do women own guns?

[Daniel McNeely]

Yes.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

So this isn't just men owning guns in the homes in your communities.

[Daniel McNeely]

Yes. I was going to add to that, Mr. Leef. I also understand where my northern colleagues are coming from. But by the same token, we shouldn't mix with the amendment process, or the direction to amend domestic violence, in saying that this is the way it is. Maybe there's a reason for the registry being accessed or used in the Northwest Territories. Let's take one out of ten. I would probably say nine times out of ten the registry is being used for domestic violence, as you were saying. In our part of the world I think it's more an education than opening the issue of amending Bill C-19.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

You talked about the education level, about people having a tougher time understanding and therefore complying with the requirements of that registry. If that's cumbersome and tough, with the criminal implications now of not registering properly, not filling out your forms properly, or letting those things expire, you're now in a position where people trying to exercise a traditional way of life in the north are facing criminal implications, both women and men who own firearms. If they fail to do something right, they are facing criminal sanctions for errors. Is that something of a concern to the communities in the Northwest Territories?

[Daniel McNeely]

I would say it's probably a concern for a large part of the NWT population, and probably our neighbouring territories of the Yukon and Nunavut have similar concerns as well.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

This is just anecdotal information; I don't need names. Has anybody told you they haven't registered their guns or they're not registering their guns?

[Daniel McNeely]

Yes, numerous times, including me.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

Why would that be?

[Daniel McNeely]

It's really a headache, to begin with.

[Ryan Leef, Conservative, Yukon, YT]

And those people—