Public Safety Committee on Dec. 6th, 2011

[Brian Wheeler]

We certainly do. Each of our operational units has what we call a CORCAN employment coordinator. CORCAN is part of the Correctional Service of Canada. It's a special operating agency that does business, trains inmates inside the institution and also in the community for work opportunities. There's training and also job development and we also work with our partners.

Principally, the employment coordinator would be responsible for working on a résumé long in advance of the individual coming to the community. This isn't something that happens the day they arrive. We've done a lot of planning before the individual arrives in the community. So they will help them with a résumé, help them with their job search, and most likely help them find a job.

They don't do it alone, necessarily; they work with other agencies. For example, the John Howard Society, which is an organization here in Ottawa, probably has about ten staff who work on this portfolio solely to deal with people in trouble with the law, trying to support offenders in finding appropriate employment and training opportunities to engage in better employment.

[Ross Toller]

I'll just add a comment to that question if I may.

The employment area is one of our highly focused areas in terms of assessment when inmates first come in, looking at what are their employment skills capability and what is their past employment record. A lot of research shows, exactly as you heard from inmates, that lack of employment does contribute to their crime cycle.

We look at building skills, as Mr. Wheeler has mentioned. More recently, we've been looking at a focus through our transformation agenda to give employability skills that are more job-market-oriented, based on some of the material that we see through job availability markets. If I can just give you a couple of examples, knowing that some of the vocational trade area is going to have a need in future years for Canada as a whole, we partnered with a number of groups and community colleges to give the requisite training that provides the skill sets to inmates. They learn, by way of this example, carpentry skills that are certifiable skills that will apply towards their ability. In some cases we've had success where we've been building a framework for areas of housing and employers that we partner with on the inside hire our offenders on the outside.

More recently, in a couple of examples, we've partnered with some aboriginal communities where we provide the skills from our end and then build housing in aboriginal communities, where inmates are giving back to the community. That's just one example where we focus on the employability for exactly the point that you've raised. And I believe you heard from inmates that this carries itself into the community as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much.

We'll move back to Mr. Norlock, please, for seven minutes.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Witnesses, thank you for coming.

Before I go into my last visit, Mr. Toller, on page 4 you talked about participation in substance abuse programs. You indicated that the inmate is 4.5 times more likely to earn discretionary release, 45% less likely to be reincarcerated because of the new offence, and 63% less likely to return with a new violent offence.

So I guess the programs you're referring to are programs of abstinence from drug use. In other words, they just don't use drugs at all.

[Ross Toller]

Yes, that's a large part of it--a lot of it.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

The reason I'm leading down this path is if we use state-sanctioned drug use programs, euphemistically referred to as harm reduction programs, we would in fact then be negatively impacting on those very successful outcomes for the programming, which, as you mention, is world class, world leading. I'll ask you to confirm this, based on your 33 years of experience with Corrections Canada.

I'd like you to comment on how you perceive a policy of state-sanctioned injection sites with regard to the success of the current programs. This committee has heard in the past that while it prevents disease, specifically AIDS and other associated diseases, part of that could also be.... So if you would comment on what I call preferable harm reduction, such as the use of prophylactics and the availability of them with regard to incarcerated personnel, I'd appreciate it.

[Ross Toller]

Thank you. That's a very complex and wide question.

I would make just a couple of quick comments. As you've heard from testimony before, a large percentage of our inmates come with substance abuse, difficulties close to 80%, and I think you've seen testimony where in some cases 50% are directly related to the crime at hand. The difficulty with our offenders is that many of those addiction properties don't stop at the time of sentence. They've often in their past exhibited a drug-seeking type of behaviour. Their desire continues.

It's a rationalization as to why we adopted the three-prong approach to get to the ability to manage and control this type of substance-abusing behaviour. Our programs do work. I''m very proud of the programs that we have. Again, we have lots of research that shows the effectiveness. You've heard my comments. You've reiterated some of the comments I brought forward about the success of the programs.

In some ways, inmates still have the desire. You're right, it is an expectation that you will not be engaged in drug activity, and the reinforcing behaviour or the behaviour modification that goes on is continuously emphasized from all the different levels of intensity through to the community. We prefer the approach that looks at harm reduction from the elements that, from our perspective, are shown to work as well. We have a higher rate of HIV prevalence, seven to ten times higher inside our institutions than what we have in the community. Similarly, with hepatitis C, it's 30 times higher inside our institutions. So the utilization of prophylactics was mentioned, dental dams for women offenders, the utilization of education programs, the utilization of bleach in the event that somebody does get the utilitization of a needle....

It's important to remember as well that while some offenders are participating in substance abuse, not all are. So all the efforts that we take are a cumulative approach to manage substance abuse activity.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you very much for that.

If I could refer to our last meeting at the Frontenac Institution, you referred to some of the programs to teach our inmates, to give them a trade and work experience that leads them to a better life through a job. Actually in some circumstances, such as Warkworth Institution, there is sand-blasting. I always called it getting your sand-blasting papers. I can recall when I spoke to some of the educators there that they told me they had to remind the inmates it was coffee time and often they would work through lunch. That's something you don't usually experience, especially, shall we say, in the real work world, where people are quite attentive to the time of day and when they get their breaks. So congratulations on that.

I wonder if you could advise us as to the progress in particular of the teaching of those who are in the laundry facility. You expanded that and showed people how to administer and run a laundry in an institution outside of prison, such as a hotel or hospital, etc. And how are those portable offices coming along? I've been talking to folks about them. They are anxious to know when that program might be available in the wider community.

[Ross Toller]

Yes, thank you. One of the other changes in employment skills development that we instituted at the Frontenac Institution was the development of a laundry service.

There actually is a linen certification program that is associated with this particular program that is offered for people who work in laundry areas. Every hotel has laundry services. Many large organizations have laundry services.

We were very, very fortunate at the Frontenac Institution, which is located in Kingston, Ontario, to be able to partner with the Department of National Defence for the military base in Kingston. We now provide all of the laundry services for the military base. They have been so pleased with the outcome of this to date that we have already expanded utilization to the military base in Trenton as well.

We have already been receiving knocks on the door to ask us about the capability for developing a dry-cleaning type of a program there. That will be a while away, but the laundry program is working. It's providing not only skills in terms of laundry service, for which there are markets, but also stock-keeping, record-keeping, control of inventory—skills that are generic in many ways.

I'm also pleased to report that the portable office program is up and running. In fact, one of the units has been completely built. It has already been transported to the Ottawa area for the Canadian Border Services Agency. It is being used as an office building on their shooting range, which the staff use for doing their work before they actually go on the range. Other houses are just about built that are going to be used for Grand Valley. I happened to be in Frontenac about three weeks ago, and it is expected to be completed this December.

Again, inmates in that capacity are learning trade skills, certifiable skills for carpentry, working in concert with a local community college. As Mr. Wheeler mentioned earlier, they will walk out of the door with a much more certifiable skill set to be able to obtain employment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Toller.

We will not move to Mr. Scarpaleggia, please.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Thank you very much.

In terms of the substitute therapy, is it basically a methadone treatment? Is that--

[Ross Toller]

There is another type of a drug, and the name escapes me. It starts with an s, and it is another opiate. It's taken through a pill form. If you give me a minute, I can--

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

No, that's fine. They're both intended to treat people with a heroin problem?

[Ross Toller]

Yes.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Of those who come in with a heroin addiction, what percentage, more or less, would enrol in a methadone treatment program?

[Ross Toller]

I have the numbers who are participating. I believe it's about 750 inmates. I can confirm that in a couple of minutes.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

But as a percentage of those who.... That would give you an indication of the demand for heroin in the institution.

[Ross Toller]

It's a small percentage in the overall numbers of the population.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

What could we do to get the percentage up of those who enrol? You say that of the total population of those with heroin addiction, it's a small percentage who enrol in the methadone treatment program.

[Ross Toller]

Yes, I think part of this question relates to how many are out there who are addicted and who could be participating.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Yes, that's right.

[Ross Toller]

I don't know the exact number, but I can tell you all the things that go on to encourage and motivate. The fact that we have participation is really good, from my perspective, from a correctional perspective. Sometimes inmates don't like to acknowledge that there is an addictive property, but they're taking those steps.

Much goes on, as I mentioned, with our health care department, from the nurses continuing to promote health care from that perspective.

We also have peer support groups in a number of institutions. We have inmates who will speak with inmates who use, and who basically look at it from their perspective and encourage in that way.

On your question about doing more, I think we just continue what we're doing to motivate, encourage, and persuade inmates who have these properties. Again, if we become aware through urinalysis testing or through other activities that inmates are participating and are not part of that program, referrals of those inmates will be made through the case management process. So, much is done to ensure that participation.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Are there wait times for these programs? Can somebody get into a program pretty quickly?

[Ross Toller]

For the methadone program, there are no wait lists associated with it. For some of the programs we mentioned before, there are wait lists. We don't use that terminology in its purest form; basically we look at this for planning for the best intervention levels we could have. There are inmates for whom the timing of their program is important. We would look to prioritize those who were closer to release more than we would those who might have longer-term sentences.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Would having more resources speed up inmates' becoming full participants in a program more quickly? And would “resources” meant money? Is it human resources? You could have all the money in the world, but if you can't find people to fill positions because the institution is far away from an urban centre, that could be a resource constraint as well.

Are there resource constraints? I'm trying to get a sense of whether everything is well or whether there could be improvements. To suggest improvements is what we are here for.