Evidence of meeting #4 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was inmates.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
There are several things that we can do if they refuse, including putting them in what we call a “dry cell.” That's where any of their bodily movements are captured and then we get to search it--not a very pleasant task for our staff to perform, but we can do that.
Conservative
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
Thank you, Chair.
It's a fascinating discussion.
My question really almost gets to the purpose of the study we're doing, because it sounds like you have everything pretty much under control, Mr. Head. You're taking new approaches to the problem of drugs being jettisoned into the yards. You're able to conduct urine tests. You're pleased that Bill C-10 includes a provision for penalties for those trafficking within penitentiaries.
So my question is, what more are you looking for from this government to make these places more drug-free?
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
I think a big part of it is linked to the issue of offender accountability, because as long as we still have individuals who test positive in urinalysis it means we haven't accomplished our task fully, and if we miss one pill that comes in through the front gate and it results in somebody dying, or somebody getting seriously hurt, then we still have a problem.
Liberal
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Accountability for the fact that they may have tested positive for urinalysis. The sanctions that are available to us, for example, in the current Corrections and Conditional Release Act were formed in 1992, and some of the sanctions there are not necessarily significant enough for us to deal with some of those behaviours.
On the criminal piece, I think there's a very good piece in Bill C-10. I really look forward to that piece being passed. But in terms of some of the lesser types of offences that may not go the criminal route, that are dealt with within our own internal disciplinary processes—
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
I thought you said at the beginning it was sufficient. Somebody asked if the act was sufficient for you, the correctional act, I forget the long name of it.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
I said for the most part. There are other errors. There are some.... For example, the one member who asked the question about the searching and the body cavity searching, I actually thought the question was going to go in a different path, because there is an area we've had some issues about, doing strip searches of offenders who move from one level of security into another. We need to make some regulatory changes to make it very clear so that it gives my staff....
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
But the problem is by the time the offender gets hold of the drug, the drug has already crossed some kind of threshold into the institution. We're talking about people being addicted, whether it be to tobacco and so on and so forth, and the solution we are looking at really is more addict accountability. We're not talking about how the drug gets in in the first place.
Do you have any stats, for example, about what percentage of inmates have access to drugs? I think stats have been issued in the past. I recall a 12% figure or an 11.5% figure. I forget exactly what those figures are referring to. Would you have any insight into those?
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
I think the figures you are referring to are the urinalysis positive results.
Liberal
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
No. We were around 11% to 12% positive tests. We're down to I think it's around 7.5% right now who test positive.
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
So that means fewer drugs are coming into the institution.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
It's indicating to us now that fewer inmates are testing positive, but still roughly 7.5% of my population are showing up positive when we do the random sampling. For me, that's still a significant risk.
Liberal
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
It has gone down from 11% or 12% to 7.5%. So for me that's a move in the right direction. My goal is zero. People may say that's overly optimistic, but to be honest, in the kind of environment I operate in, I have to have a zero goal.
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
Do you know how the drugs are coming in, other than being thrown over the fence?
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
They are being smuggled in by visitors, family members, contractors. As I say, we have very few staff. We've just finished dismissing 12 staff this year.
Liberal
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
It varied. We had food service officers, psychologists, correctional officers.
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
One issue you brought up was correction plans, which are very important to any inmate who wants to apply for parole, for example. He or she has to have completed a corrections plan. Is that correct?
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Yes. A correctional plan is completed for every inmate.
Liberal
Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC
I'm told there are waiting lists for the correctional plans; inmates who would like to get on a plan just can't because of the waiting lists. Maybe there aren't enough personnel to put plans together. Where's the bottleneck?
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
A very good question.
We have encountered some lengthy wait lists to get into the programs. As I mentioned briefly, the new approach to offering programs--the integrated correctional program model that we're piloting in the Pacific region and in the Atlantic region--is a way to get offenders starting their programs within 45 days of starting their sentence, as opposed to the 150 to 250 days after they started their sentence. We know that's a problem.
