Public Safety Committee on Oct. 6th, 2011

[Howard Sapers]

Prison crowding actually confounds just about everything that's positive about a correctional environment. Prison crowding leads to violence, bullying, intimidation, and gang activity. All of those things are related to the trade in contraband in an institution. Prison crowding is also dangerous for staff. Prison crowding also delays people's access and entry into programs. Again, it's just a capacity issue.

There is no positive side, no upside, to prison crowding. Of course, in federal penitentiaries prison crowding often leads to double-bunking, which is a significantly different issue from double-bunking in a provincial facility.

I don't want to get into a contest of who's running a better or worse system, but the average length of stay in a provincial facility is less than a month and a half, while the average length of stay in a federal facility is well over three years. If you're in a space that's designed for one person and you're living with somebody else and it's for more than four years, I think there's an order of magnitude difference. Of course, privacy issues and human dignity issues and even personal hygiene issues come into play, and all of that has a relationship to drug use and self-medication and contraband—and, again, to some of the other underground activities in institutions such as bullying, intimidation, or conscription of somebody else into an illegal activity inside the institution.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you. It sounds as though overcrowding has a direct impact upon the issue of drugs and alcohol use in prisons.

What I was hearing there is that some of the balance between demand reduction and harm reduction is out of whack right now, and that although there has been funding of one of the legs of the stool there are unfortunate wait times to enter programs, with people being released later than they might otherwise be released.

It sounds as though we have a downward spiral here whereby the absence of people in treatment, because of lack of capacity, is leading to more overcrowding, which then increases the problem.

In the discussion about capacity, is there one specific issue? Is the lack of qualified personnel or lack of capacity a pure dollar issue, or is it a training issue? Is it that there simply aren't people out there to fill all the spaces as our prison populations grow? Is it more the availability of money or of skill?

[Howard Sapers]

I think you have two general factors to consider. Number one is that we have seen growth in the federally sentenced inmate population. Roughly speaking, it's up by about 1,000 people this year over last. The system has not grown to the same extent. It is growing—there are lots of capital projects going on, lots of new cell space being constructed—but the system is playing catch-up. That's just one side of the equation, the physical housing space.

The other side of the equation is the recruitment and retention of professionals, from security officers through to psychologists through to program officers. Having those people in place, having them trained, and keeping them on the job is an ongoing problem for the correctional service. We see very unfortunate vacancy rates in psychology positions, for example.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Are these vacancy rates high because there's no money to fill them? Is that part of the attrition and the cost savings?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

We're going to, unfortunately, cut you off right here. We're over our five minutes.

The last questioning was good, in that I think you tried to tie it together with drugs. There may very well be other prison studies that we do here on issues such as funding and all that; but, more specifically, we want to try to stick to the difficulty of drugs in prison.

Anyway, we thank you for coming, and we appreciate your—

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, my comments were directly about the increase of drugs and alcohol in prisons, which I was hearing have to do with overcrowding and the capacity to treat people with drug and alcohol addictions. The causes of that, whether funding or training, are directly related to this downward spiral of drugs in prisons.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

It was a good question, Ms. Murray.

We will suspend for just a few moments and we will invite our other guests to come forward.

Thank you for coming. We look forward to your coming again.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

It's always difficult when we have lunch here and when we have bells and votes and everything else. So we apologize right off the top to our next witnesses, who are appearing in our second hour.

We will continue our study on the impact drugs and alcohol in prison have upon the rehabilitation of offenders, and also their impact on correctional officers and crime within institutions.

We have appearing before us in the second forty minutes Mr. Ken Snedden, acting assistant deputy commissioner for corporate services in Ontario, Correctional Service of Canada.

Appearing as an individual, we have William Normington, who will share his considerable experience with us. He is a retired Corrections Canada officer.

We welcome each of you. We look forward to your comments.

We'll begin with Mr. Snedden.

[Kevin Snedden, Acting Assistant Deputy Commissioner, Corporate Services (Ontario), Correctional Service of Canada]

Good morning, Mr. Chair, and members of the committee. I'm pleased to have the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the operational realities of managing issues related to drugs and alcohol within our federal penitentiaries.

By way of introduction, my name, as you said, is Kevin Snedden. Last spring I assumed my role as the acting assistant deputy commissioner of corporate services for the CSC in Ontario. Until then, I was the warden of Collins Bay Institution in Kingston, the second-oldest institution for male offenders in Ontario, behind Kingston Penitentiary. In fact, I took on the role of warden at Collins Bay exactly three years ago today. I'm not sure how that date keeps falling, but it seems to be eventful for me.

I should note, Mr. Chair, that my experiences as warden will inform most of my comments today.

Prior to taking command of Collins Bay Institution, and from my initial employment as a correctional officer in 1995, I've worked in institutions across Ontario and at the regional treatment centre in Kingston.

While at Collins Bay, I managed the retrofit of the institution, which initially began in 1999. The purpose of this retrofit was to provide a more open, dynamic security environment and to promote staff and offender interaction, which is an important tool in the detection and deterrence of drugs in our institutions.

The retrofit included four new living units, which were opened in 2008. Three of these units are 96-bed facilities focused on dynamic security. This design is one of the models being used for the institutional expansion currently under way across Canada.

It is interesting that the perimeter wall at Collins Bay Institution has remained relatively unchanged since its construction by offenders in the mid-1900s. Today, however, it is equipped with a fence detection system, staffed towers, and mobile patrols. Beyond preventing offender escapes, these measures help prevent throw-overs of drugs and other contraband into the institution.

Mr. Chair, as the commissioner told you last week, the vast majority of offenders coming into our institutions have a dependency on drugs and/or alcohol. Substance abuse is usually at the root of the crime that landed them in the federal correctional system in the first place.

Substance abuse is the most important issue we must address if we are to help offenders move through their correctional plan and return to the community as productive, law-abiding citizens. Dealing with the issues of substance abuse is also important for the stability of our institutions across Canada. Addicted offenders are prone to violence and will seek any means necessary to feed their addiction. These factors put institutional staff, as well as the offender population, at risk.

So an important part of the job of any warden is to make sure that we are doing the best job we can to keep drugs out of the hands of offenders. This requires a multi-faceted approach that aims to reduce the demand for and supply of drugs and alcohol inside institutional walls.

Three years ago, CSC received $122 million in funding over five years for the elimination of drugs in institutions. This money was geared towards enhancing institutional security.

At Collins Bay Institution, it was used to fund three key areas. The first was the addition of a security intelligence officer for us to better collect and analyze intelligence information regarding who might be involved in contraband activities and to take steps to mitigate their involvement. Secondly, we added another drug detector dog team to facilitate searches of cells, as well as of offenders, visitors, and contractors. Finally, we provided additional correctional officer resources to better manage the offender population.

These additional resources, combined with the hard work of the staff at Collins Bay Institution, have resulted in some impressive stories. Last spring, staff were completing a routine search of the recreation yard in the morning hours and discovered three packages of contraband in the yard, as well as one caught in the razor wire. A further search uncovered a total of eight packages containing marijuana, heroin, crack cocaine, and ecstasy, for an estimated total institutional value of approximately $80,000.

Police and security intelligence officers worked together to investigate, and later that summer a suspect was arrested on his way back to Collins Bay Institution with similar packages. He has been prosecuted and has received a sentence of 30 months.

And just last month, one of our detector dog teams was searching inmate effects coming into the institution and gave a positive indication on a box. A subsequent search by staff uncovered gang-related clothing, as well as a television that had been stuffed with eight packages of a substance that was believed to be eight ounces of marijuana. This would amount to an estimated institutional value of approximately $30,000.

The security and intelligence officers at Collins Bay Institution are currently investigating this matter, in partnership with the York Regional Police drugs and vice unit, and the Peel Regional Police intelligence services gang unit. We expect charges to be laid against the suspected sender of the package, who is a well-known, high-level Toronto drug dealer.

Mr. Chair, I'm proud of the hard work that front-line staff have undertaken to make our institutions safer places to work, and to create an environment that is more conducive to healing and rehabilitation. I am proud of the offenders in our custody who recognize the cycle of addiction, crime, and violence, and who are taking the necessary steps to address their substance issues.

During my time as warden, when an offender walked out my front door of Collins Bay Institution, I wanted to know that CSC had done everything it could to make sure I wouldn't see him coming back.

With the resources we have received to date and the efforts being undertaken at national headquarters, our regional offices, and institutions like Collins Bay, I am confident that we are making a positive difference.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Snedden.

We'll now look to Mr. Normington, please. Do you have an opening statement?

[William Normington, As an Individual]

Yes, sir.

Good afternoon. My name is Bill Normington and I've worked at a grassroots security level in Canadian prisons for over half of my life.

I can assure you that the problem with the introduction of drugs and alcohol getting into our prisons is nothing new, and that's the bad news. The good news, however, is that it can be fixed.

The key to the problem is highly motivated staff and a strong, supportive chain of command. When I began my employment in corrections, the majority of our staff were ex-military. I was tutored by veterans who encouraged me to engage offenders at every opportunity. This, of course, opened the door to communication with offenders and taught me the importance of dynamic security, lessons that should be encouraged in staff today.

The demographic has changed, but like the Canadian military of the late sixties, when trades personnel retired, a void of experience was created, and that's what we're experiencing now in corrections. Corrections is experiencing a similar void and there is a lack of older, experienced personnel to guide and encourage young officers, many of whom are not completing their function well. Many are text messaging while on duty, which in turn creates a lack of initiative to perform their function well and a failure on the part of correctional managers to effectively direct them.

To its credit, the government has attempted to provide the necessary tools required to have an impact on the problem. However, the most diligent officers are often discouraged, and the least productive are sometimes rewarded. The ion scanner, for example, is a machine that detects particles of drugs on visitors or whoever would enter the institution. Particles of drugs that would normally ban a visitor from entering our institutions are often allowed by the shift supervisor who dismisses the positive results of the scanner, citing machine or operator error, which sounds pretty bad.

However, there are many things we can do to have an impact on this situation. The first thing we have to do is to motivate staff. We also have to communicate with more offenders dynamically. And we must have positive, experienced staff mentor our new recruits, and we should install cellphone blocks in our institutions. Our staff should be supported while they're trying to carry out their very difficult jobs. The tools that are given to us should be trusted and be used; they shouldn't be second-guessed. Finally, we should re-establish a chain of command.

I know these are simple solutions, but they will improve the situation now, and perhaps vastly in the future.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Normington.

We'll move into the first round of questioning with Mr. Norlock first.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Through you, Mr. Chair, to the witnesses, thank you very much for attending.

I'll start with Mr. Normington.

Mr. Normington, thank you for coming today. I realize that sometimes this place works pretty fast; usually it's pretty slow, in my view. We had quite a few witnesses. I'm sure Warden Snedden was assigned this task on very short notice, and the same with you, so thank you for coming.

I'll get right to the question. I was very concerned when I heard some of the last witnesses that we had before committee, particularly the Elizabeth Fry Society, say that every search of an inmate or a visitor, especially anything that was considered a so-called strip search, was a sexual assault.

Do you, number one, feel that those persons--

[Marie-Claude Morin, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Chair, I rise on a point of order. Certain members keep trying to make the witnesses lie. I think this witness is entitled to his opinion. I do not understand why members are trying to undermine a testimony by questioning other witnesses. I do not see the relevance.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Madam.

That's not a point of order. I think the record will show what they said. In reality, Mr. Norlock's question is referencing someone else at a different meeting, but we can't expect these witnesses to have known that.

Mr. Norlock, continue. That was a good question. I think you are referencing something that was definitely given as testimony.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I hope this time isn't counted against me. I did spend 30 years of my life in and out of courtrooms, so I know how to question a witness.

I guess what I'm asking is whether you ever considered that you had committed a sexual assault on someone you were assigned to search, or do you feel that any other Correctional Service of Canada officers are actually sexually assaulting persons when they're conducting such a search?

[William Normington]

In 35 years' of experience, I've never run into that. I've never run into any offender who has been sexually assaulted by officers doing professional cavity searches.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you very much.

In your testimony you also made reference to some of the new tools the government has provided to correctional officers. I know that you still have friends who work at one of Canada's largest prisons. Do you feel that these new tools add to personal safety?

Second, in your opinion, when a person feels safer, do you believe that he or she is free to do a better job, meaning a more thorough and effective job during the course of their work?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Let me just interrupt again here and say that tools in relation to drugs and alcohol are the focus.

So to both sides, the government and the opposition side, our focus is not on expanding prisons. It's not on anything other than drugs and alcohol, their ability to prevent rehabilitation, and just how they're getting in there, and the safety of correctional officers.

Continue, please, on the tool aspect.

[William Normington]

Well, an example is the ion scanner. When the ion scanner is used, there's no doubt in my mind that the machine doesn't make errors. We can detect on the individuals who come in, on their wallets or their jewellery or their clothing, quantities of drugs. We can detain them until the authorities come and arrest them with probable cause, or we can ask them to leave the institution. That has eliminated one problem. But what happens is that individuals come in for visits. They mule in their drugs, if you will. They are passed off. As soon as they get into V&C, the visitors and correspondence area, it's almost impossible to detect and recover them.

So, yes, those tools are invaluable and make the environment a safer environment to work in.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you very much.

We also heard testimony from some witnesses about a recent Supreme Court decision on so-called safe injection sites. There are certain people, such as the police chief in Ottawa, who believe that the state is providing permission for people to use illegal and illicit drugs.

In your experience, have you ever encountered programs where apparatus or needles were provided? How did that work out?

[William Normington]

The idea of providing needles within prison makes no sense at all. Invariably what will happen is that the needles will be misused. They'll be used as weapons. Large numbers of needles will go missing. It will just create havoc; it will just create security problems within the facility. I don't think that's a good idea. I would think it would be a failure to try to introduce something like that into our prisons.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you, Mr. Normington, and Mr. Norlock.

We'll now move to Mr. Garrison, please.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Thank you very much, and thanks to both of the witnesses for appearing on short notice.

I particularly want to thank Mr. Normington for bringing the perspective of the rank and file corrections officer. It's not something we've heard before at the committee, and I think what you had to say about the importance of mentoring in a positive work environment is a good addition to what we've heard here. I thank you for focusing on that.

Would you say that the best approach to reducing the harm of drugs in prison is to focus on one thing, like interdiction, or staff morale, or rehabilitation, or would a balanced approach to those be necessary?

[William Normington]

It certainly has to be a balanced approach. One thing isn't going to resolve the problem.

Right now with the amount of drugs that criminals are trying to introduce into our prisons, we should be directing a lot of money and resources towards that. As an example, at Warkworth Institution, there are six ways that drugs are being introduced into the institution. We know that. We don't have the resources to have people there at the times they're brought in. That's an ongoing thing, and it isn't unusual. The deployment study of our staff has almost handcuffed our supervisors' ability to deploy staff. There are many instances where drugs can be brought into the institution. We don't have the staff to prevent it.