Public Safety Committee on Feb. 12th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Good morning, everyone.

This is meeting number 70 of the Public Safety and National Security Committee, Tuesday, February 12, 2013.

If we have time, I'll just say right off the top, in the final 30 minutes of today's meeting we will go in camera to consider some committee business. I remind you of the decision we made last week.

As far as today's meetings go, we are continuing our study of the economics of policing in Canada. We have as a witness today the Federation of Canadian Municipalities. Berry Vrbanovic is here, the past president of the FCM. Leanne Holt is a policy advisor to the FCM.

Welcome.

Also by teleconference, hopefully, from Brooks, Alberta, we will have Kimberley Sharkey, the deputy mayor of the City of Brooks. I see that she's there now.

Our committee at this time wants to thank each of you for appearing before our committees—one here in Ottawa at 8:45, and one at 6:45 in Brooks.

Kimberley, we thank you for getting up and getting down there early this morning.

We'll begin with some opening statements. Maybe we'll go to Mr. Vrbanovic here first. I hope Ms. Sharkey will be able to hear his comments as well, and then we'll look forward to her comments.

Mr. Vrbanovic.

[Berry Vrbanovic, Past President, Federation of Canadian Municipalities]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to the committee for inviting us here today.

With close to 2,000 members, FCM represents the interests of municipalities on policy and program matters that fall within federal jurisdiction. Our members include Canada's largest cities, small urban and rural communities, and 21 provincial and territorial municipal associations across our country.

FCM welcomes the opportunity to contribute to this important discussion.

Municipalities, which pay for 60% of policing in Canada, have a huge stake in the economics of policing. Municipal stand-alone police forces serve 77% of all Canadians, and we contract services from the RCMP to serve another 15% of our population. Municipal governments pay the salaries of two out of every three police officers across the country. Overall, policing and public safety costs currently make up 20% to 50% of municipal budgets, depending on the community.

I'm sure you have heard the statistic often over the course of your study, that the cost of policing has doubled in Canada over the last decade. Municipalities are paying for 60% of that increase. Compared to federal and provincial governments, municipalities have few tools for raising funds, and as more money is spent on policing, there are fewer resources available to address other services that contribute to safe and healthy communities. The current situation is not sustainable for municipalities, or for property taxpayers.

The Minister of Public Safety, his ministry, and this committee have taken an important first step in addressing this growing problem by leading this national discussion about the economics of policing. FCM welcomed the opportunity to participate in January's Economics of Policing Summit, which put the spotlight on the three-pillar approach defining efficiencies within our policing systems. What we learned at the summit, and what I think you have heard so far at this committee, is that there are significant changes under way at the operational level of policing in Canada.

Our police forces are looking for efficiencies and better ways to serve our communities. They are studying and implementing new models of policing, like the early intervention Hub model, from Saskatchewan, or the safe communities initiative, in Alberta. In both cases police are working across jurisdictions, with a range of service providers, to reduce crime and keep people out of the criminal justice system.

As we watch police and public safety providers breaking down silos and working together to make tough but important changes to improve the delivery of policing in Canada, we have to recognize that all orders of government must be ready to do the same. There are cracks in the policing system that we, as governments, need to start fixing. Over the last two decades, the national and international responsibilities and priorities of our RCMP have, for a range of reasons, grown and shifted. However, resources have remained fairly static, and in some areas on the decline, which has often left the RCMP straining to carry out all of its federal policing responsibilities.

A 2011 Auditor General report showed that in order to meet its national commitments, the RCMP had been forced to cut funding for federal policing, including organized crime investigations, border integrity, drug enforcement, and money laundering. Over time, this has meant local police forces are dealing with crimes that were once the exclusive purview of the federal RCMP. Every year municipalities spend hundreds of millions of dollars on major organized crime investigations, drug crimes, interprovincial and international Internet crime, commercial crime, and national security investigations.

Border communities in Ontario alone spend upwards of $1.5 million annually on law enforcement and support at international border crossings.

The case of the Toronto 18 saw integrated policing efforts lead to the RCMP arrest of 18 men under Canada's federal anti-terrorism legislation. Local police incurred $2.5 million in costs, over a four-year period, providing enhanced court security for that trial.

The reality facing governments and our police is that crime has become more complex, more technical, and more mobile. Jurisdictional lines between federal, provincial/territorial, and municipal police are constantly blurred, as these crimes play out on the streets in our communities.

It is difficult to suggest that as governments we are doing our best to find efficiencies and effectiveness in policing when we don't have a clear understanding of who is responsible for what, who is doing what, and who is paying for what. A 2008 FCM report on policing found that a fundamental problem with the current regime is the absence of a clear and shared understanding of the roles and responsibilities of the various orders of government in the area of policing services.

When we look at what's ahead for policing, including training and technology upgrades for a national interoperable emergency broadband network, for example, we know that the strain on municipal budgets will only grow.

Front-line policing is also seeing frustrating trends as cracks within Canada's mental health and homelessness systems play out in our streets. Studies in Vancouver have shown, for example, that the police have become society's 24/7 de facto front-line mental health workers. Municipalities do not have the reach or resources to continue to take on more, or to address the social and economic factors that affect crime rates.

Public Safety Canada has started an important conversation about the economics of policing. On this issue, perhaps more than any other order of government, it is municipalities that understand that efficiencies in policing must be found. We must bring down the overall cost of policing. We must champion innovative and efficient policing and crime prevention systems.

If we are truly committed to achieving these goals, then as governments we must begin the discussion about the impact and costs of the changing roles and responsibilities of our federal, provincial, and municipal police forces. We must make sure that governments are accountable and work together to give our police the tools they need to implement change and keep our communities safe. We look forward to building on what we heard at the summit and what we are hearing from the minister, that Public Safety Canada is committed to moving forward together.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much, Mr. Vrbanovic.

We will go to Ms. Sharkey in Brooks, Alberta. Do you have some opening comments as well? After that, we will go to a round of questioning.

[Kimberley Sharkey, Deputy Mayor, City of Brooks]

Yes, I do have some opening comments. Thank you very much for allowing me to speak with you this morning. I'm going to touch again on some of the overarching reasons that we are aware of locally, that have a real impact on policing costs. Some statistics: in the last ten years the RCMP in the city of Brooks has grown from 15 officers to 23. Of course this is due in part to our population growth. Ten years ago we had a population of 11,604, essentially one officer for every 773 people, and currently our population is about 13,676, with one officer for every 547 people. We have not had a significant growth in population, however we have had a fairly significant need for the increase in police officers.

Of course other factors come into play: the sophistication of crimes and definitely labour-intensive systems and time-consuming processes. So many barriers seem to be imposed with regard to the sharing of information. With the safe community initiative and other types of initiatives, the sharing of information is delayed and sometimes doesn't happen due to the legislation around privacy issues, I suppose. Most often the people and organizations that provide that service remain on the periphery due to privacy legislation. The folks who need assistance generally don't get the required assistance in time, so without intervention, the RCMP remain involved.

Our RCMP building is owned by the government, and we recently received notice of a rent increase. In the past the rent has been approximately $130,000 per year, and it's now $245,000. That's a $115,000 jump or 88%. That's really tough on our municipality and other municipalities as well, of course.

We're very fortunate that our local detachment works closely with the city. They provide us with numerous options for levels of service, and we try to balance what those true policing functions entail. That's paramount to understanding minimum policing service levels and ensuring our RCMP are engaging in duties and functions that can only be done by the RCMP and not by others. I have an example of this that we've implemented. I know in some communities the RCMP take on the role of diversity coordinators. In Brooks the city has recognized the need for a diversity coordinator, however we've incorporated this role into an in-house city position that works in partnership or in tandem with RCMP. This initiative allows for the same type of work to be done in our community, however the cost is substantially less.

Currently our RCMP detachment is integrated with numerous services such as ALERT and crime prevention strategies and such. It has become apparent that we would also benefit from a crime prevention coordinator, and of course we're looking for ways to make this happen that speak to efficiencies. Again, is this a true policing function, or can we effectively have a position that would be less costly if this role is held by a person in the community who has a dedicated mandate that is fully understood and supported by the RCMP?

Our community is very diverse. We're known as the City of 100 Hellos. It brings numerous challenges, numerous opportunities, and we're always looking for ways and initiatives that are truly relevant to our community to become more efficient and work with the RCMP to close those gaps.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much, Ms. Sharkey.

We'll move into the first round of questioning. We'll go to Mr. LaVar Payne who is a good member on our committee.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Kimberley, for filling in for our illustrious mayor of Brooks. You've presented an excellent opening statement. Can you tell me and my colleagues if the RCMP has always been the police force in Brooks as a city or when it was a town, or did you have your own municipal force?

[Kimberley Sharkey]

Good morning, LaVar, thank you.

We have always contracted with the RCMP.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Okay, thank you, that was just for clarification for my colleagues.

You outlined a number of issues in terms of the policing and the additional costs of the building, which is a fairly substantial increase. I don't know how that's played in terms of taxes, or in costs of the officers in terms of the contract. Have you seen any major increases in prices there as well?

[Kimberley Sharkey]

Of course, with the increase in officers, our expenditure is about 23% of our overall budget, so definitely we've seen a huge increase there. Then, of course, there are other costs associated with implementing programs and the building. Our overall expenditures have gone up approximately 23%.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Having been there on numerous occasions, I know that Brooks has a very diverse culture—as you mentioned, there are the 100 hellos. How has policing evolved over the years in terms of the population growth in Brooks?

[Kimberley Sharkey]

We definitely found it necessary to have a more diverse RCMP force. It's definitely beneficial for them to know different languages and have that connection. When we're talking about true policing functions, these RCMP officers have to get out into these cultures and be known. There's a lot of concern when people come from other countries and there's mistrust and misunderstanding. Our police force is very active in just being out in the community, being seen and being heard, showing that they are safe people to go to, instead of being scary. They have to break down those barriers.

We're questioning now what true policing functions are. Are they the actual processes? It's so much more evolved and necessary than just breaking up a fight at two in the morning and taking someone away and processing them. There are all sorts of other things that are necessary in this community.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

You did talk about some potential changes in-house and working with the RCMP on various aspects, particularly diversity. What have you done in terms of working with the local RCMP in that area?

[Kimberley Sharkey]

We have started a few different initiatives. We have the safe communities, and that's a group of council, RCMP, and local residents who get together and talk about all those concerns and help the RCMP and the city figure out what the priorities are. Then those are taken back to the RCMP to see how they can best manage those types of concerns.

We have, of course, the diversity coordinator; the RCMP are very integral to that. The diversity coordinator is a city position, yet we know it's necessary for the RCMP to be out, to be seen and be involved, so of course that person in the in-house role works very closely with the RCMP.

We've also started a new initiative for domestic violence. A large part of our population is from immigration. I know there are definitely provincial and federal parameters that come around. We see immigrants or temporary foreign workers come into our community and they cannot bring their families for three years. A lot happens in three years. When those families actually do get to come, there's a definite disconnect and a lot of domestic violence in our municipality. So we've started a domestic violence intervention team, which was spearheaded by the RCMP. A lot of work has been put into that area for prevention.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I have one minute left. Here is one last question, Kimberley.

Could you highlight what you see as potential areas of efficiencies for the police services that could be achieved for the City of Brooks?

[Kimberley Sharkey]

Just recapping, we're looking at true policing functions: what does the term mean, how are they evolving, how are they changing, and what is the impact? What role does the city play: are we able to fill those gaps in-house? Is that the best solution, the most efficient use of policing time and dollars?

We're very fortunate to have those open discussions with our RCMP and with council as a whole to figure out how we move forward, keeping costs as low as possible, I suppose, but yet get what we need out of the RCMP.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much.

We'll now move to the opposition. We'll go to Mr. Garrison, please, for seven minutes.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the deputy mayor from Brooks for that very clear presentation of policing issues there.

I want to turn to the FCM to talk a little bit about some of the things they have said.

I certainly come from a riding with diverse policing. I was just making a note to myself: I have two municipal police departments, six municipalities policed by the RCMP, five first nations, and unorganized territory that is policed under the provincial policing contract. You talk about lack of clarity. Often residents of my riding have a really unclear understanding of responsibilities and of who is paying for what in policing.

I come from a community within that riding that has had a decade-long dispute with the provincial government over the best way to deliver policing services, with the province prohibiting the municipality from contracting with the RCMP, which the municipal council wanted to do because they felt it delivered better service at a lower cost and would coordinate with the neighbouring municipalities, which were already being policed by the RCMP. We've been dealing with this—I am a former municipal councillor—literally for a decade, trying to figure out the best way to deliver police services, without ever saying that there's anything wrong with the quality of service we're delivering now, but feeling that there is a lack of coordination, a lack of efficiencies that could be achieved by other modes of delivery. Because of that, I was very interested to hear you focus on roles and responsibilities.

Am I understanding correctly that you are really saying that, while on paper we know who is responsible and who should pay for what, in practice municipalities are picking up responsibilities from a lot of other levels of government?

[Berry Vrbanovic]

I think it's fair to say that dealing with crime in today's world is a very complex issue, and the reality is that people who are engaged in crime don't necessarily understand what the role of the federal government is in policing, what the role of the provincial and territorial governments is, and what the role of municipal governments is.

We believe that fundamentally there needs to be a conversation, with all three orders of government at the table, that gets into this issue of roles and responsibilities. Through that discussion and through what we think is necessary—which includes the development of some good research into what is happening across the country, what some of the best practices are, and so on—we can start making better use of the existing resources within Canada to address policing issues.

While the focus of that obviously needs to be on roles and responsibilities, at some point part of that conversation also needs to include resources and the question of who is paying for what. At some point, that will need to work itself into the conversation as well.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

It's tempting this morning to go into a couple of issues—the police recruitment fund and the issue that has arisen over severance—but I don't think it's going to be helpful to our study for me to go down that path this morning. So I want to focus on asking you more about what the FCM sees as the biggest cost drivers in policing.

[Berry Vrbanovic]

There are a number of factors that have impacted upon policing costs in various jurisdictions across the country. As I've identified, part of it has been the more complex nature of crime and the scope of issues that are having to be dealt with across the country. Whether we talk about cybercrime or terrorism and national security issues, all of those kinds of things are playing out in our communities as well. Obviously, this situation is putting some pressures on policing.

Legislative changes are putting pressures on policing, legislative changes that happen at both the federal and the provincial levels. Many of these are often necessary, but we recognize that those changes will have an impact on policing as well.

We feel that all these things need to work into the roles, responsibilities, and resources discussion that we talk about.

Certainly, in some jurisdictions there has been talk. This is admittedly a provincial issue, and so I don't want to delve into it significantly here, but obviously the arbitration process in some provincial jurisdictions has been a factor as well. But I don't believe that is the main focus. I think we need to really look at what the resources are that are in place. Our study back in 2008 indicated that municipalities have had thrust upon them about $500 million in policing costs over a period of time, and so we need to start having a meaningful discussion about how to better tackle those issues.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

You have two minutes left, Mr. Garrison.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

That's good, because I want to turn to an issue Mr. Vrbanovic raised: the impact of mental health issues in our communities on policing. What I believe I heard you say is that this is also one of the drivers contributing to municipalities' costs, both in a policing context and in the context of other social services.

[Berry Vrbanovic]

Absolutely. I don't think you will find a police chief in this country who won't tell you that they have in effect become the 24/7 agency that deals with social services, mental health issues, and so on. In fact, today is probably an appropriate day to be talking about it, with the whole Bell “Let's Talk” initiative that is being carried out across the country.

Without a doubt, those issues are playing out in terms of policing. You need to look at the kinds of things being explored in communities like Prince Albert in Saskatchewan, where they have done some really innovative work bringing together various agencies—policing, mental health, social services, and others—to look at a holistic approach to dealing with some of those challenges, recognizing that there is really only one taxpayer across all the jurisdictions and asking how we can more effectively deal with the challenges we face in our communities, with the limited resources we have.

[Randall Garrison, NDP, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

If I can sneak in just one last question, does the FCM now have a kind of working group on these policing issues? If so, who is leading that initiative?

[Berry Vrbanovic]

We do have a committee that deals with community safety and crime prevention on a regular basis. Last year, during my FCM presidency term, coinciding with the work of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police I focused part of my year on doing a nationwide consultation on the economics of policing across the country.