I think all witnesses are different, but that's certainly one of the themes I've heard over the course of my career. If there is no meaningful sanction, why should they risk themselves or their families in testifying? Again, I'm sure that's something the investigators are very aware of when they're trying to put a case together.
Mr. Leef, you've been an RCMP officer. You know what that's all about, how difficult it is in certain communities to get somebody to testify.
I know the real problem we used to have in respect of domestic violence, a horrendous problem where spouses are being abused by the other spouse, and then ultimately, the reluctance to testify for a number of reasons. I think as a society we've moved quite far from the old days. Back in the 1970s when I was prosecuting as a front-line prosecutor, so many women, usually, came to court and simply said, “I don't remember what happened”, or, “I don't want to go forward.” Then the women used to be prosecuted on public mischief charges. We've come a long way since then.
I think some of the steps we're taking on this program are just other steps in terms of protecting witnesses and understanding how the witness is an integral part of the justice system, which they never used to be. They were a sort of afterthought or just an appendage.