Public Safety Committee on Oct. 27th, 2011

[Andrea Markowski]

The programs for women address more then just substance abuse. What we do is to assess the level of intervention required. If it's low, we will engage with them or offer programs as a transition into the community. If there is a moderate need, we have a moderate program. And then we have higher-intensity programs, if there's a higher need. The general program will address all kinds of issues, including substance abuse at whatever intensity the person requires.

Then we have some specialized programs, for example, for sex offenders. We have two streams of programming. The modular programs are either offered through the general stream or in the aboriginal stream, meaning that an elder would be attached to the program and cultural teachings would be incorporated. There are usually three phases to treatment. There's engagement, there's treatment, and there's self-regulation or maintenance, which often starts in the institution and follows in the community.

I also think you have to remember that on admission to federal custody, a lot of adjustment and many assessments need to happen. There's also some relationship-building that needs to happen. I think 50 days is a laudable time to begin our core programming, and we do many other interventions with the women before that. But obviously, the sooner we can begin to assist them, the better. There are efforts under way to do that at all the facilities.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Okay, thank you.

Darcy, as a layperson, it would seem to me that the use of more drug dogs would be advisable. I know that resources are limited, and regardless of whether the price of drugs might go up if the supply is limited, my own feeling is that we need to keep drugs out of prisons. I'm just wondering if you would think it advisable that institutions be properly funded in order to have more drug dogs so that everyone is sniffed, for lack of a better word, when he or she comes in. It just makes sense to me. Is that a naïve perception?

Otherwise, are there ways of getting drugs past the drug dogs?

[Darcy Thompson]

As I said earlier, the drug dog program is an excellent program. We currently have two dogs at Drumheller Institution, but they can't be everywhere all the time.

Yes, one of our priorities is the visitors coming in. But the dogs can't be at our principal entrance every day; they have other obligations. They may need to be deployed down into the units to search a cell. We might have some intelligence that inmates are coming back from remand, so we would want the inmates who are coming back and are being dropped off by the sheriff's department to be searched by the drug dogs.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Let me be more direct then. Would you like more drug dogs?

[Darcy Thompson]

Yes, definitely.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Okay, and so that would be a recommendation?

[Darcy Thompson]

Yes, it would be.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Okay, thank you.

I think I have time for one more question, and that would be to Andrea again.

Andrea, with the expected increase in the numbers of people to be incarcerated—and I don't think I'm speculating here—as a result of the new omnibus bill coming through, are you going to need more support, particularly with respect to addictions and other ailments, including mental illness, that people will be suffering from as your numbers increase?

Could you tell me what plans you are making to prepare for that eventuality?

[Andrea Markowski]

More and more women admitted to federal custody have very high rates of mental health difficulty. At this point, about 30% come in with a diagnosis, and the expectation would be that this would continue at that rate, or increase as our population increases.

We're already very well positioned with my interdisciplinary team to assess, treat, and offer services to these women. We're pre-positioning ourselves by establishing pools of qualified staff, and also reaching out to those hard-to-recruit staff, so that as our numbers increase we have the staff we need to deliver the services.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Randall Garrison]

Thank you, Ms. Markowski.

Ms. Morin, you have five minutes.

[Marie-Claude Morin, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you.

My question is for Ms. Markowski. I'm sorry if I'm not pronouncing your name correctly. First of all, thank you for being here. I'd like to thank the other witness for being here as well. It's very interesting.

A little earlier, you spoke briefly about programs for aboriginal women. I'd like to know whether aboriginal women serving a federal sentence have the same substance abuse problems as non-aboriginal women. Are their treatment needs different?

[Andrea Markowski]

Thank you.

Aboriginal women have at least as high or higher rates of substance abuse, violent offending, and mental health difficulties. Their difficult experiences have compounded and they come in with very high needs. What we've found in the past was that mainstream programming was not as effective as it could be for aboriginal women. It wasn't as culturally sensitive or appropriate for them, and that's why the stream that we have now, which they opt into voluntarily, has been shown to be much more effective. It uses different techniques and incorporates teachings and ceremonies, and an elder. It's similar but enhanced, so that it's more effective for aboriginal women.

[Marie-Claude Morin, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

The Correctional Service of Canada offers intervention programs for offenders with a substance abuse problem, for women with a substance abuse problem and for aboriginals. Are the programs for aboriginal women the same as for the men or are we talking about programs that are truly adapted for aboriginal women?

[Andrea Markowski]

All of the programs for women are specifically for women, and the programs for aboriginal women are specifically for aboriginal women. All of our programs are evidence based. They are based on research and evaluated to ensure they are effective and appropriate.

[Marie-Claude Morin, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you. I have no other questions for you. Thank you very much.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Randall Garrison]

We will go to Mr. Aspen for five minutes.

[Jay Aspin, Conservative, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Thank you, Chair. Thanks to our guests for providing their expertise this morning.

The first question I have is for Ms. Markowski. As you indicated in your opening remarks, the women offender population is the fastest growing incarcerated federal population. That took me by surprise.

I wonder if you could elaborate on the reasons for that.

[Andrea Markowski]

I would only be guessing why that population is growing as fast as it is. Over the last 10 years, the women offender population has grown by 9% per year on average. Between 2006 and 2010, the women offender population increased by 23%. In fact, it increased by 28% for aboriginal women.

Everyone has been taken by surprise by this trend. It's very complex and sad. I would only be guessing about the social context and environment that might be contributing to making them more vulnerable to being criminalized. The criminal justice system ends up taking care of folks who probably also need a lot of care from social and mental health services.

[Jay Aspin, Conservative, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

Thank you.

In your estimation, is there a difference between males and females in terms of how drugs are smuggled into prisons?

[Andrea Markowski]

What I would say is that the problem is different, because women in prison do not have the supports or connections outside of prison that men do. They are not connected to networks of organized crime. They don't have people willing to bring things in for them, especially not in large quantities. They don't have the resources to move hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of drugs.

We deal with a different situation. We deal with women coming in from remand centres who sometimes have some drugs or tobacco in their body cavities, usually in small amounts. Mostly they are just managing their withdrawal and their anxiety about coming to prison and it's not about their having access to drugs. Is say this because our prisons for women are quite drug-free.

We have other challenges. The women are on a lot of medications for various health and mental health issues. We have diversion challenges that I think are more prevalent than they are in the men's facilities. Those would be for methadone and other medications that they might be pressured to share, or that they might sell because they want resources for other things, such as the canteen.

I think visitors are sometimes bringing in small amounts of drugs or tobacco. It isn't often. We are quite effective in deterring and monitoring that, but it does happen sometimes. The women are definitely making efforts, on occasion, to bring drugs back in after they've been out on an escorted absence, whether for their own use or because they feel pressured sometimes to do that.

I think the flavour of the problem with drugs and alcohol in prison is quite different in women's facilities.

[Jay Aspin, Conservative, Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON]

When we took part in a visit to Collins Bay and Joyceville earlier this week and talked to the prisoners, they were pleased that a lot of these programs were put in place. They generally spoke positively about them.

Could you comment on your assessment of the value of the government's investment of $122 million in addictions and rehabilitation programs? Could you both briefly comment?

[Andrea Markowski]

I can say that my site received significant reinvestment funds that have been directed specifically to hiring more nurses, occupational therapists, psychologists, program delivery officers, and parole officers. That has significantly enhanced our ability to address the needs of the women and to help prepare them for a safe transition to the community.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

You're out of time. I'm sorry, Mr. Aspin.

Did Mr. Thompson want to answer that as well?

You did ask both.

[Darcy Thompson]

I agree with Warden Markowski. We have excellent substance abuse programs. We have Narcotics Anonymous and Alcoholics Anonymous available for the inmate population.

One thing that I find very difficult is that it's very hard to help someone who doesn't want any help. A lot of our offenders don't recognize that they have a problem, or they enjoy their current lifestyle. But these programs have to be available. It's absolutely essential to their rehabilitation and for them to be able to be released back into our community and to be law-abiding citizens.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you.

Mr. Chicoine.